Author Topic: MCARBO CZ 75b trigger spring kit review.  (Read 12583 times)

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Offline Rmach

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Re: MCARBO CZ 75b trigger spring kit review.
« Reply #120 on: October 29, 2019, 07:11:36 PM »
Took the second polished stainless to the range today and ran 200rds of American Eagle with no problems. This handgun has 600rds fired so far with the MCARBO kit. My other stainless 75 has 800rds fired with no problems.  I'll be back at the range with this one for another 200rds this week.
CZ Shadow 2 Orange, S2 urban gray, S2 black and blue, 3 polished stainless 75b's and a black 75b all with MCARBO kits and front Dawson FO.

Offline jokester945

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Re: MCARBO CZ 75b trigger spring kit review.
« Reply #121 on: October 30, 2019, 10:17:37 AM »
Just to keep each install consistent, I ran another 200rds today with no problems.  Each of the three installs had 400rds fired with no problems. The reused factory trigger pins are holding so far in the two installs, and my hunch is it they will hold just fine for the next several thousand rounds.  The trigger in each of the three installs is almost as good as my Shadow Orange and my two Shadow 2's. that's my opinion and I will stick with it. Other forum members should not criticize or make comments on the kit unless they have actually installed the MCARBO kit in their own CZ75b's.

The MCARBO kit is a spring kit. Honestly that's it. It's no miracle that it would make your trigger pull lighter. The laws of physics dictate that that if you put lower tension springs under the hammer and firing pin block that you will get a lighter trigger pull. You could take the factory CZ hammer spring, cut 2 coils off and experience a similar result. So your results are not surprising.  They are to be expected.

What you continue to (and in my opinion purposefully) overlook in your review:
1. The hammer spring - it is of unknown weight so if you are trying to tune your gun to your liking then you are unable to as MCARBO does not sell differing weights. This is sort of a one-and-done scenario. If it happens not to work with the modifications in your gun then you're out of luck.

2. When you work on the trigger you should replace the trigger pin. Your "hunch" that it'll be fine is just that. I have seen broken trigger pins before but certainly have seen many more broken trigger return springs. In order to service the trigger you need to remove the trigger pin. Even if you have the tools to re-flare it, no one recommends it because flaring it causes weakness. If these are range toys for you, you may do just fine on your hunch. I won't judge that. You can feel free to do that.

However some people carry these guns for self defense. Other people compete with these guns. I would recommend that those 2 categories of people absolutely replace the trigger pin with a floating pin. It's $13. I have seen someone with a broken trigger return spring (and no ability to remove his factory trigger pin) at a match. He tied the trigger to the trigger guard with a rubber band in order to shoot the gun. I bet he wished he had that $13 pin that day. Plenty of us had spare trigger return springs to lend him.

3. Use a starter punch. You saw yourself what damage and trouble you can get into without the proper tools. I've damaged one of my guns as well and learned my lesson. So I tell as many people as possible to prevent them from making the same mistake. Instead you continue to review this MCARBO kit and ignore the problems you've had with the spring install.

While MCARBO does not claim to replace the trigger pin, there is no disclaimer or recommendation that someone should...nor a disclaimer or recommendation that one should use a proper starter punch. They should state that with their spring kit: that there are tools necessary for a proper installation. If they don't, whoever reviews this kit should state that so that others don't get into the same trouble you did.

A bunch of us told you these things and you ignored our recommendations. We didn't do it to criticize you. We did it because we have experienced these problems before and didn't want to see you experience them as well....and then you had your problems. 1 out of 3 guns isn't too bad but it's not too great either.

So I'll be frank here.
I appreciate your review of the kit and the pictures of the range testing. That's effort and not enough people do that.
From your insistence or stubbornness to heed people's advice I wonder if there is some sort of relationship between you and MCARBO...though I could care less of the conspiracy theories. Maybe you just don't like taking advice I dunno.

I have modified many CZ's. I have learned a lot from people on the forum. I appreciate when people explain their reasoning. I have tuned many CZ's and have played with differing spring tensions. What makes a good trigger is not simply a hammer spring and a firing pin block spring. I have worked several guns with triggers under 2 pounds and they are terrible. I have many guns with triggers in the 2 pound range which are incredible. A hammer spring and firing pin block spring only gets you partway to a really nice trigger (if that's what you're looking for).


Shadow Orange and Shadow 2's - These are not simply lightened springs. They have different hammers which drastically change the trigger feel. If you're just talking about trigger weight, then sure you can drop your CZ weights as low as you want. Unless you change the hammers on the 3 guns you installed the MCARBO kit on I highly doubt you are getting the same quality of trigger.

I have played with many CGW Race Hammers and Ring hammers. S2 hammers, two CZC competition hammers and they far outperform the stock hammers.

That may be personal feel but to me it's pretty obvious side by side.

Anyway good luck with your guns. I hope they treat you well and you enjoy your kits. End of the day we are all gun owners who like to play with our toys. No need to get worked up about this stuff.

Many valid and true points here. I still want to know the weight of that bleep hammer spring and they guard that like some KFC 7 spices formula or something. I will say their customer service was great, however I'll probably go back to CGW springs because at least there is data on those springs. Does the MCarbo work? yes. Is it tune-able? Nope, is it easier or harder than any other spring kit? nope, Does it cost less? by pennies.

Offline Rmach

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Re: MCARBO CZ 75b trigger spring kit review.
« Reply #122 on: November 01, 2019, 08:04:25 PM »
Back from the range today after running another 200rds through stainless #2. Total of 800rds through this one with the reused factory trigger pin (no movement). All primer strikes still look fine with no malfunctions. Next week will be the plain Jane black 75 for another 400rds.  I'm running theses through the paces because of the three new Dawson fiber optic sights that I recently installed in my MCARBO 75's.  So far, I'm very happy with the new front sights and the excellent triggers.
CZ Shadow 2 Orange, S2 urban gray, S2 black and blue, 3 polished stainless 75b's and a black 75b all with MCARBO kits and front Dawson FO.

Offline Rmach

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Re: MCARBO CZ 75b trigger spring kit review.
« Reply #123 on: November 02, 2019, 05:44:36 PM »
Full disclosure update. This afternoon, I was cleaning stainless #2 from this weeks two range visits, and just for the hell of it, I pushed on the trigger return spring pin with a pick and it moved more easily than I'm comfortable with.  After 800rds fired, it was/is holding in place just fine, as the other one on my other 75 is too, but this ease of movement today didn't agree with me.  So off to the basement where the concrete foundation wall and ledge is perfect to hold pressure against one of the two punches to re-flare the factory pin.  The wife assisted me with holding the frame steady. After two whacks, I checked to see if it was flared enough, and it wasn't.

Bottom line, I'm sure I could have gotten this pin flared, but I decided to order two CGW floating pins, just in case I ever have to remove the pin again. I agree that the MCARBO kit should include a new trigger return spring pin, but I won't give in and say it should include a stater punch or a hammer. All three of my 75's will now have a CGW floating pin. I'm an agreeable guy... :)
CZ Shadow 2 Orange, S2 urban gray, S2 black and blue, 3 polished stainless 75b's and a black 75b all with MCARBO kits and front Dawson FO.

Offline Rmach

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Re: MCARBO CZ 75b trigger spring kit review.
« Reply #124 on: November 06, 2019, 05:50:06 PM »
Ran another 200rds through the black CZ75b with no issues associated with the MCARBO kit. The trigger pin still has no movement, but that will be replaced with a CGW pin later this week. There are now 15 five star reviews on the CZ75 MCARBO kit, if anyone is interested.
CZ Shadow 2 Orange, S2 urban gray, S2 black and blue, 3 polished stainless 75b's and a black 75b all with MCARBO kits and front Dawson FO.

Offline Rmach

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Re: MCARBO CZ 75b trigger spring kit review.
« Reply #125 on: November 07, 2019, 07:05:27 PM »
Back to the range today with another 200rds and zero malfunctions.  I'm losing track of all the rounds fired through each of the three 75's (old age).  I think I now have (post MCARBO) 800rds through two of them and 1000rds on the other. The MCARBO kit and Dawson fiber optic sight make a great combination IMO. One of the targets from today set at 10yds and fairly rapid fire:





 
CZ Shadow 2 Orange, S2 urban gray, S2 black and blue, 3 polished stainless 75b's and a black 75b all with MCARBO kits and front Dawson FO.

Offline Rmach

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Re: MCARBO CZ 75b trigger spring kit review.
« Reply #126 on: November 13, 2019, 11:54:17 AM »
Installed the CGW floating trigger pin in the other two 75s that had the reused factory pin. Easy install, just pushed out the old pin with the new pin. It took maybe five seconds for each one. All three of my 75's now have the MCARBO kit, Dawson .125 wide front fiber optic and the CGW floating trigger pin. For ~$80 in upgades for each one, all three are now super shooters.... :)  BTW, there are now 17 five star MCARBO kit CZ75 reviews.
CZ Shadow 2 Orange, S2 urban gray, S2 black and blue, 3 polished stainless 75b's and a black 75b all with MCARBO kits and front Dawson FO.

Offline Rmach

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Re: MCARBO CZ 75b trigger spring kit review.
« Reply #127 on: November 30, 2019, 12:32:26 PM »
There's a new Youtube video comparing CGW, MCARBO and Apex spring kits. Longer video, but pretty much an objective review IMO.  BTW, I'm waiting for my fourth CZ 75b MCARBO kit, but currently on back order. They had 20% off for the holiday. Here's a link to the review:


CZ Shadow 2 Orange, S2 urban gray, S2 black and blue, 3 polished stainless 75b's and a black 75b all with MCARBO kits and front Dawson FO.

Offline Rmach

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Re: MCARBO CZ 75b trigger spring kit review.
« Reply #128 on: February 01, 2020, 06:48:41 PM »
Finally received my 4th CZ75b MCARBO kit that was on back order.  Installation went very well, and a new 1/16" starter punch worked perfectly to start moving that stubborn trigger pin. I did install a new CGW floating pin. This MCARBO kit was for another polished stainless 75b that I recently picked up.

During spring change intervals, I reassembled the pistol to feel how the trigger felt. The first check was after the firing pin spring and safety retention spring, along with the hammer spring. Noticeable difference in both SA and DA, but nothing alarming.  Next was the trigger return spring, and that had a larger noticeable difference.

The only spring left changing was the sear spring, which I haven't installed yet because I'm not sure I want the trigger any lighter than what it is now. I'm measuring an average of 3.0-3.1 in SA without the lighter sear spring, crisp and smooth.  I didn't measure the DA, but it feels really close to my other 75b at 7.5ish. The other 75b with all the springs installed gave me a average SA pull at about 2.7-2.8.
I think I'm going to leave it without changing the sear spring.

I'll be at the range next week to make sure I have reliable ignition like my other 75's do with the MCARBO kit.  I'll update after the range.
CZ Shadow 2 Orange, S2 urban gray, S2 black and blue, 3 polished stainless 75b's and a black 75b all with MCARBO kits and front Dawson FO.

Offline Rmach

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Re: MCARBO CZ 75b trigger spring kit review.
« Reply #129 on: February 03, 2020, 06:15:53 PM »
Went to the range today with the 4th installed MCARBO kit.  On this install, I didn't install the lighter sear spring because the trigger pull was just fine on this 75b with the factory sear spring left in.  All 250rds of Federal CCI 115gr fired perfectly.  BTW, there are now 23 five star reviews on this trigger kit at the MCARBO website.  A couple of targets from today at 10yds:



« Last Edit: February 03, 2020, 06:57:28 PM by Rmach »
CZ Shadow 2 Orange, S2 urban gray, S2 black and blue, 3 polished stainless 75b's and a black 75b all with MCARBO kits and front Dawson FO.

Offline Rmach

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Re: MCARBO CZ 75b trigger spring kit review.
« Reply #130 on: February 05, 2020, 06:44:50 PM »
Maybe my last entry in this thread... 8).  The second range visit this week with stainless CZ75b #3 and the 4th MCARBO kit went well.  Ran 250rds of Blazer 115gr with no misfires or malfunctions. All told, that's a couple thousand rounds spread over four CZ75's with zero problems, so I think that speaks for itself. Oh, 28 great review ratings at their website as of today, so it's not just me.  Target from today at 10yds, rapid fire:



« Last Edit: February 05, 2020, 06:57:25 PM by Rmach »
CZ Shadow 2 Orange, S2 urban gray, S2 black and blue, 3 polished stainless 75b's and a black 75b all with MCARBO kits and front Dawson FO.

Offline Rmach

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Re: MCARBO CZ 75b trigger spring kit review.
« Reply #131 on: February 08, 2020, 08:05:05 PM »
One last trip to the range with stainless #3 and 250rds fired.  I was starting to shoot low occasionally, so I wanted to rule out the Dawson FO sight I installed as the culprit.  I shot from a makeshift rest using my pistol carrier box as a rest, and the Dawson sight is right on target (.130 tall after sanding base to fit in slide). I guess I developed a flinch now, to be continued.  BTW, 45 excellent reviews now on the MCARBO CZ75b trigger kit: https://www.mcarbo.com/store/ProductReviews.aspx?ProductID=336
« Last Edit: February 16, 2020, 10:02:55 PM by Rmach »
CZ Shadow 2 Orange, S2 urban gray, S2 black and blue, 3 polished stainless 75b's and a black 75b all with MCARBO kits and front Dawson FO.

Offline Rmach

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Re: MCARBO CZ 75b trigger spring kit review.
« Reply #132 on: February 18, 2020, 07:20:56 PM »
Wow, 49 excellent reviews.  I won't keep updating based on reviews, but I knew this was going to happen.  Maybe some of the forum members will accept another good supplier, maybe.
CZ Shadow 2 Orange, S2 urban gray, S2 black and blue, 3 polished stainless 75b's and a black 75b all with MCARBO kits and front Dawson FO.

Offline recoilguy

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Re: MCARBO CZ 75b trigger spring kit review.
« Reply #133 on: February 19, 2020, 09:46:15 AM »
If this kit works for you and you are happy with your results what the other guys on here think should have no bearing.
The fact that they will come out against this product is typical for internet forums.
There is a certain company that has done a masterful job of marketing to the CZ owner and has made their product a sought after status symbol.
They have even coined a nickname for a CZ with their brand of improvement and now everyone thinks they want that for them selves.
America is a great country when this thing works for a company, it is what I would wish for my company if I were to have one in this industry. Its brilliant actually.

For the poor souls who believe that a new or less costly option cant be as good or will not work that is their prerogative. If what they say worries you or makes you feel
like you have to justify to them your results, that is truly too bad.

I have a gun that is " cute catch phrase ized" and it is a very good improvement and is what is promised. I also have a few other guns (CZ's) done by a few other places that are close, most are indistinguishable from the one that is all the rage, and I have one done elsewhere that is the best job ever. Maybe I got lucky but no other I have compares and it is from a guy in Arkansas and it was over 100 less. Good for me. I am going to buy a couple spring kits from MCARBO for the few CZ's I have still stock. I am sure I will be very happy with them, it appears you are. Thank you for your diligence and constant updating. But what I think should not matter to you or change your results because you know what is happening to your guns. If you are happy that's the end game.

now keep practicing, it looks like you could use a little more range time and maybe a little less bench time...…….opps a new can of worms sorry.

RCG   
…….It's that you shoot!

Offline Rmach

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Re: MCARBO CZ 75b trigger spring kit review.
« Reply #134 on: February 19, 2020, 11:46:35 AM »
New can of worms, nah.  I'm happy with 3"-5" groupings from 10-15yds, good enough to become an NRA pistol instructor.  I don't know where all these average great shooters are that have much better results. I haven't seen them at the range, and I usually go every week or two. In the last 5 years, I saw two shooters that were capable of 2" or less groups at 10yds. This is at the indoor range that has 22 stalls. Standing two hand hold with iron sights. Heck, even on Youtube, the experts don't shoot much better except for a few like Hickock45. That's been my experience, so new can of worms, nah.

Edit: I forgot to mention that EVERY poster on the gun forums averages 1-2" groups from 15 yards except me... :(
« Last Edit: February 19, 2020, 12:14:12 PM by Rmach »
CZ Shadow 2 Orange, S2 urban gray, S2 black and blue, 3 polished stainless 75b's and a black 75b all with MCARBO kits and front Dawson FO.