Author Topic: The perfect pistol  (Read 1470 times)

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Offline coolbox

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Re: The perfect pistol
« Reply #15 on: September 13, 2019, 03:08:56 AM »
The P series is surprisingly accurate.
My perfect pistol would be a P09 on a SP01 frame, converted SAO. If only they made a long slide version of the P09 !!
Life is too short to waste on a bad trigger pull

Offline briang2ad

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Re: The perfect pistol
« Reply #16 on: September 14, 2019, 08:59:49 PM »
The perfect pistol MUST include a P99AS style paddle mag release.  If you never shot/manipulated a gun with them, you are missing out on what a mag release was meant to be. 

Offline SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM

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Re: The perfect pistol
« Reply #17 on: September 15, 2019, 06:33:06 AM »
The perfect pistol MUST include a P99AS style paddle mag release.  If you never shot/manipulated a gun with them, you are missing out on what a mag release was meant to be.
I've shot guns with the paddle and I do not like it. Most recently an HK P30SK. I didn't like the gun or the release.  If you do that's your preference, If it was that great we'd have them on all our guns. I like the button just fine. To each his own.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2019, 09:44:12 AM by SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM »

Offline Hammer Time

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Re: The perfect pistol
« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2019, 04:35:32 PM »
I'll also add that my newer P-07 has a significantly better trigger than the last one I owned. Not sure if I just got lucky this time, or if CZ is improving their finishing of the internals, but it really is way better.

I still went ahead and added a reduced power TRS, #18 hammer spring and DA roller from CGW. And polished the trigger bar and de-tensioned the trigger bar return spring, and couldn't be happier with it now.

SP-01 Tac

P-07 OD

Scorpion Evo 3 S1


Offline briang2ad

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Re: The perfect pistol
« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2019, 06:32:20 PM »
Paddles in a SHORT grip can be a challenge - I like paddles but not in the PPS for example. 

In a regular sized guns long P99 style paddles are better in the following ways:

1. They offer a mag release with NO shift is grip at all to most users.
2. They are completely ambidextrous with no compromise (a la P10C)
3. More leverage for sticky mags.
4. No holes needed in the mag (see your P30). 
5. 1-3 make them generally faster for mag changes and getting back on target. 

The only downside and reason for buttons is convention.  They can lead one to 'do the wrong motion' when you switch back to the (dumb slower) buttons. 

It took me about 2-3 mag changes on the range to adapt and say 'wow this is MUCH better'.  I'd say they are objectively better for 1-3.  Not shifting your hand at all just makes them better - period.  If one has orangutan thumbs, OK you can be almost a fast, but still don't have the same leverage. 

The only reason for buttons is convention.  It 'got fielded first' - that's it. 


Offline 01svtL

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Re: The perfect pistol
« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2019, 05:49:55 PM »
It sounds like a lot of you, who want to mix aspects of various CZ guns, are describing a SP-01 Phantom with a little Cajun love, no?

Offline MadDuner

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Re: The perfect pistol
« Reply #21 on: September 17, 2019, 07:17:03 AM »
We just can’t leave stuff alone.....

Offline briang2ad

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Re: The perfect pistol
« Reply #22 on: September 17, 2019, 06:11:26 PM »
We're Murican.   :)


Offline M1A4ME

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Re: The perfect pistol
« Reply #23 on: September 18, 2019, 07:10:13 AM »
Sounds like work (where I worked for 30 years before retiring).

The (right) engineers spend a lot of time developing a new piece of equipment or process, test it out, go back and work out the bugs, test it out again, work out some more bugs and finally decide it's ready for installation/use.

It's bought/built/installed and put into service.  The darn thing works, just like they said it was (remember, that takes the right engineers, not just any or all or every engineer, the right engineers).

Then, after it's proven to work as advertised the process/production engineers along with maintenance decide they can "make it better."

That is followed by more money spent to change a well working piece of equipment/process-to make it better, of course.

At some point, things begin to fall apart, the process/equipment won't run, finger pointing, meetings, shouting matches ensue and after a few weeks/months of this management calls in the original (good) engineers who show up, look at the mess their design has become with great alarm and lots of questions.  Which results in more finger pointing, meetings and shouting matches.

The equipment is "restored" to it's original form/function and runs like a top once again.  Just as advertised.

Then, of course, the same cast of characters begins to "improve" on it and the cycle repeats.

I got to watch that from a distance many times over the years.  Fortunately, for me, no one saw the value of my area and no one wanted to spend money to make it better and I was seldom bothered by any outside engineers, good or bad.  The "good" ones would come from overseas, look things over, marvel at the way things ran, the quantity and quality of what we made and even ask if we could make product for overseas plants (which we could not due to the before mentioned lack of money spend to improve/expand our area/equipment over the years.)

It's fun, from a distance.  When you're in the middle of it, it's a PITA.  Big time.

I wonder if the CZ design engineers read internet forums and what they think about complaints (when their pistols work just like they were designed) or suggestions for improvement.
I stopped carrying the SIG 556R.  SIG changed models and couple/three times and stopped supporting it with parts.  So, I stopped supporting SIG.  Back to the tried/true AR15 Carbine.

Offline briang2ad

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Re: The perfect pistol
« Reply #24 on: September 18, 2019, 10:53:48 AM »
All good points.

First - as mag releases go, SOME buttons are better than others.  The P07 because of its skinny grip allows a decent shot at the mag release.  The PPQ M2 also offers a fairly decent purchase.  They don't compare to the PPQ paddle, but not bad.

The P series has been in production for 10 years.  Might be a chance to make changes based on equipment recap depending on life cycle - but maybe not worth it based on CB analysis. 

Offline Hammer Time

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Re: The perfect pistol
« Reply #25 on: September 18, 2019, 05:34:26 PM »


In a regular sized guns long P99 style paddles are better in the following ways:

1. They offer a mag release with NO shift is grip at all to most users.
2. They are completely ambidextrous with no compromise (a la P10C)
3. More leverage for sticky mags.
4. No holes needed in the mag (see your P30). 
5. 1-3 make them generally faster for mag changes and getting back on target. 


I could see how those things could be advantageous for some who either have hand size challenges, or have purchased a gun that fits their hands poorly. But I've never found a need for a paddle release, primarily because;

1) I don't buy, and I certainly don't carry, guns that require me to shift my hand to release the mag.
2) Ambidexterity of the mag release isn't a concern of mine.
3) Just like poor-fitting guns, I don't carry mags that don't release cleanly.
4) Can't see how mag catch holes are an issue.
5) 1-3 are factors I completely avoid through choice, so I doubt my mag changes aren't any slower as a result.

Not saying that mag paddles might not be helpful for some people, but I wouldn't say they are superior in general.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2019, 07:57:36 PM by Hammer Time »

SP-01 Tac

P-07 OD

Scorpion Evo 3 S1


Offline coolbox

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Re: The perfect pistol
« Reply #26 on: September 19, 2019, 03:20:12 AM »
Sounds like work (where I worked for 30 years before retiring).

The (right) engineers spend a lot of time developing a new piece of equipment or process, test it out, go back and work out the bugs, test it out again, work out some more bugs and finally decide it's ready for installation/use.

It's bought/built/installed and put into service.  The darn thing works, just like they said it was (remember, that takes the right engineers, not just any or all or every engineer, the right engineers).

Then, after it's proven to work as advertised the process/production engineers along with maintenance decide they can "make it better."

That is followed by more money spent to change a well working piece of equipment/process-to make it better, of course.

At some point, things begin to fall apart, the process/equipment won't run, finger pointing, meetings, shouting matches ensue and after a few weeks/months of this management calls in the original (good) engineers who show up, look at the mess their design has become with great alarm and lots of questions.  Which results in more finger pointing, meetings and shouting matches.

The equipment is "restored" to it's original form/function and runs like a top once again.  Just as advertised.

Then, of course, the same cast of characters begins to "improve" on it and the cycle repeats.

I got to watch that from a distance many times over the years.  Fortunately, for me, no one saw the value of my area and no one wanted to spend money to make it better and I was seldom bothered by any outside engineers, good or bad.  The "good" ones would come from overseas, look things over, marvel at the way things ran, the quantity and quality of what we made and even ask if we could make product for overseas plants (which we could not due to the before mentioned lack of money spend to improve/expand our area/equipment over the years.)

It's fun, from a distance.  When you're in the middle of it, it's a PITA.  Big time.

I wonder if the CZ design engineers read internet forums and what they think about complaints (when their pistols work just like they were designed) or suggestions for improvement.

A very true projection of what happens, at most engineering/operations related setups at least. It does take the right engineers, and when they are motivated, they do bring about minor improvements and fine tuning. Which we have been observing in pistols, bolt actions, revolvers etc etc over the entire last century!


Life is too short to waste on a bad trigger pull

Offline briang2ad

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Re: The perfect pistol
« Reply #27 on: September 19, 2019, 01:54:53 PM »
Quote
1) I don't buy, and I certainly don't carry, guns that require me to shift my hand to release the mag.
2) Ambidexterity of the mag release isn't a concern of mine.
3) Just like poor-fitting guns, I don't carry mags that don't release cleanly.
4) Can't see how mag catch holes are an issue.
5) 1-3 are factors I completely avoid through choice, so I doubt my mag changes aren't any slower as a result. 

If you have LONG thumbs and are pre-arthritic - great.  I have large hands, but have to shift my hand slightly for all buttons. MOST people do.  Paddles are better for most.   Mag releases don't normally get stuck - dirt/sand have a vote.  Ambi could become important, and more leverage is good.