Author Topic: Heat buildup in TSO and Shadow2  (Read 523 times)

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Offline DesertRay

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Heat buildup in TSO and Shadow2
« on: September 09, 2019, 08:40:28 PM »
Greetings all, I have a quick questions concerning heat buildup in CZ pistols.  I recently purchased 2 pistols, a Tactical Sports Orange (2019 model in .40 S&W) and a Shadow 2.  Both were purchased NIB.  After shooting 150 plus round in a session, the heat buildup in the pistols is such that they are uncomfortable to hold, much less shoot.  I make sure that the pistols are well lubricated before I start shooting. I have tried putting Hoppe’s high-performance gun grease on the Shadow 2 to see if that helps, it did not.  I am NOT shooting rapid fire strings.  Both guns have less than a 900 rounds through them, just shooting slow fire strings to slowly break the guns in and to learn the idiosyncrasies of each gun. I have a number of other pistols, including heavy caliber ones, and I have never had this issues of high heat buildup after shooting a relatively low round count. 

Any ideas or is this just a normal aspect of CZ pistols?

I really enjoy shooting both pistols, the TSO best but the Shadow 2 is newer so lower round count.  I will give it time to see how the question settles.

Thank you.

Offline Joe L

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Re: Heat buildup in TSO and Shadow2
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2019, 09:00:41 PM »
Normal for steel guns.  Polymer doesn't conduct the heat so they stay cooler in the grip. 
Joe
CZ-75B 9mm and Kadet, 97B"E", two P-09's, P-07, P-10C, P-10F

Offline M1A4ME

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Re: Heat buildup in TSO and Shadow2
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2019, 07:31:37 AM »
The only competition/match I've ever shot was with 1911's in the US Army (Battalion Combat Pistol Team) when we went to the annual matches at Ft. Meade Maryland.  I do not remember that old 1911 getting hot.

When I shoot these days I usually only shoot 5 to 20 rounds before changing out targets and then going at it again.  I've not noticed the P01s or CZ75 Compact either.

Rifles are a different story.  Much more powder, higher velocity and heat build up, in the barrel anyway.
Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.  So, if you see me walking the dogs with my SIG 556R, its okay.

Offline George16

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Re: Heat buildup in TSO and Shadow2
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2019, 08:35:34 AM »
In addition to what we’re stated, it also depends on the powder being used on the ammo. I know that titegroup heats up my barrel faster compared to Winchester 231 and Sport Pistol.

What ammo were you using?

Offline Walt Sherrill

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Re: Heat buildup in TSO and Shadow2
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2019, 09:01:14 AM »
As noted in an earlier response, metal-framed guns heat up more noticeably than do polymer-framed guns, and it becomes much more noticeable  if you fire a lot of rounds rapidly. 

I shot a friend's H&K P7 once, after he had already shot several mags through the gun,  and the barrel seemed hot enough to blister your hand.  It wasn't that hot, but it was hot enough you'd probably want to wear gloves if you  planned to shoot a lot of rounds rapidly with THAT gun.   
« Last Edit: September 10, 2019, 10:25:49 AM by Walt Sherrill »

Offline SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM

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Re: Heat buildup in TSO and Shadow2
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2019, 09:18:25 AM »
Greetings all, I have a quick questions concerning heat buildup in CZ pistols.  I recently purchased 2 pistols, a Tactical Sports Orange (2019 model in .40 S&W) and a Shadow 2.  Both were purchased NIB.  After shooting 150 plus round in a session, the heat buildup in the pistols is such that they are uncomfortable to hold, much less shoot.  I make sure that the pistols are well lubricated before I start shooting. I have tried putting Hoppe’s high-performance gun grease on the Shadow 2 to see if that helps, it did not.  I am NOT shooting rapid fire strings.  Both guns have less than a 900 rounds through them, just shooting slow fire strings to slowly break the guns in and to learn the idiosyncrasies of each gun. I have a number of other pistols, including heavy caliber ones, and I have never had this issues of high heat buildup after shooting a relatively low round count. 

Any ideas or is this just a normal aspect of CZ pistols?

I really enjoy shooting both pistols, the TSO best but the Shadow 2 is newer so lower round count.  I will give it time to see how the question settles.

Thank you.
As has already been pointed out metal framed guns will radiate heat to the user. This is true for ANY metal framed handgun and is in NO WAY unique to CZ.

Offline huskerlrrp

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Re: Heat buildup in TSO and Shadow2
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2019, 08:10:46 PM »
Are you using the aluminum grips too? I run G10 and have shot just south of a 800 rounds in a day before without issue. The down time was reloading 6 mags and pasting targets. The weapon is hot, but not unbearable. Worse on summer days (high ambient), of course. Vihtavouri 320 powder in both 9mm and 40 Short and Weak.

Offline DesertRay

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Re: Heat buildup in TSO and Shadow2
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2019, 10:32:53 AM »
I have 20 handguns that are steel, aluminum or polymer framed, so I am well acquainted with handguns of various materials.  Also, with 13 years in the military (infantry) and 19 years in law enforcement, I know what a firearm does when you do some mag dumps.  None of the handguns that I own or have for work have heated up as fast as my CZ’s do.  I have gone to the range with my TSO and a 1911, both steel frame and .40 cal, and the CZ heats up much faster than the 1911.

I am using Winchester white box and Winchester purple box 180g for the TSO and three different brands for the Shadow 2.  I have the aluminum grips on both guns.  I have been researching LOK grips, so I think I am going to get a set for each gun.  Gloves are not an option.

As I said in my first post I have only been shooting slow fire strings while I have been breaking in the guns, so the rapid heat buildup has been surprising to me.

I will have to see if the new LOK grips and running the guns wet will help bring the heat level down to a tolerable level.

Offline huskerlrrp

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Re: Heat buildup in TSO and Shadow2
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2019, 08:42:45 PM »
...Also, with 13 years in the military (infantry)...
You should love how it sucks and wish it would suck more then. :)


Offline M1A4ME

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Re: Heat buildup in TSO and Shadow2
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2019, 06:21:52 AM »
The 9 and .40 both use a lot of powder, run higher pressures and probably burn hotter than the powder/pressures of a .45 acp.

I remember reading about the testing of the 1911 by the US Army.  A couple officers shot one till it actually locked up (had enlisted men loading magazines for them - imagine that) from the heat build up.  One of them turned around, looked at John Browning and asked him what they should do to get it to work (no word on exactly how many rounds they'd fired but it was multiple magazines and two of them taking turns shooting it).  Mr. Browning took the 1911 from them, dunked it in one of the dud barrels filled with water that was kept on the ranges in those days), pulled it out of the water, shook it (to get excess water out of it), loaded a magazine and emptied it at the target.  Then he smiled and handed it back to them and went on answering questions from other military personnel.

Heat buildup is affected by a lot of things.  Maybe CZ's have the right (or wrong in your preference) combination of metal used, cartridges used, fit of parts to one another, etc., etc., etc.
Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.  So, if you see me walking the dogs with my SIG 556R, its okay.

Offline coolbox

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Re: Heat buildup in TSO and Shadow2
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2019, 08:40:40 AM »
Not refuting your observations, but SP01 shadow has been the leading pistol in IPSC. That is some pretty rapid firing.
I too have participated a few in IDPA and IPSC type matches and tactical matches, at my local club, with sp01 shadow (9mm only). Never found the heat to be noticeable really. Except on extremely hot days, when the pistol is placed on a table in an open (uncovered) shooting range, then the metal gets hot to the touch. But never in sustained strings of shooting.

Considering your past experience, and side by side comparison between CZ and 1911, maybe you could try using any non metal grips on the CZ perhaps? My pistol has CZ factory rubber grips.
Life is too short to waste on a bad trigger pull

Offline George16

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Re: Heat buildup in TSO and Shadow2
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2019, 10:07:13 PM »
I shoot my two and shadow 2 in USPSA and never experienced any excessive build up on both of them. I also practice weekly and probably shoot about 300 for each gun doing bill drills in succession plus transition drill using three USPSA targets. I also do the doubles drill. I keep them cleaned and lubed properly.

For breakin, I shot my shadow 2 using 150 rounds of 115 federal ammo doing the above mentioned drills. The only time I shoot slow is when I’m zeroing the sights.

How much lube do you put on the rails and barrel?

Offline DesertRay

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Re: Heat buildup in TSO and Shadow2
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2019, 09:37:34 PM »
Both guns are very enjoyable to shoot.  I like the ergonomics of both pistols.  After 500 round or so I may look at putting in the reach reduction kit from CGW.  The TSO is staying the way it is, except for new grips.  I am also looking at new grips for the Shadow 2. 

The fact that a lot of people have been using various CZ models in national and international competitions with great success is what drew my attention to the brand.

I have been running them what I consider wet and I put Hoppe’s high performance gun grease on the Shadow 2 before I shot it the first time.  A friend suggested soaking the guns down in a good CLP a few time before I go shooting again.  I will give that a try to see if the guns will soak up the oil into the metal.  Hopefully this will build up and help reduce friction heat buildup.

Offline flgunnie

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Re: Heat buildup in TSO and Shadow2
« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2019, 09:37:01 PM »
My S2 heats up pretty quickly too. I typically shoot 250-300 rounds in a hour and by the end it is uncomfortable to hold and I have to stop.

Offline flyinggun

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Re: Heat buildup in TSO and Shadow2
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2019, 01:03:58 AM »
Shot this in about 90min.  No complaints about heat really.  Down time was patching bon A's and and loading 4 mags after 8, 8 shot strings.  Each string was around 2.5sec.

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