P-10 F trigger not always resetting

[fastlane604]

Let me give some background.  I have several hundred rounds through this P-10 F.  I also have two p-10 Cs.  One with a couple thousand or more rounds.  The P-10 F and the P-10 C, with the two thousand rounds, have HBI triggers.  I have had no trouble with either HBI trigger resetting until a couple weeks ago.  A couple weeks ago the P-10 F began having trigger reset issues.  Once or twice out of 5 rounds the trigger won't reset.  It coincided with me changing out the trigger disconnector spring for a CGW reduced power disconnector spring. I reinstalled the OEM disconnector spring.  I still have the reset issue.  I removed the slide stop spring and bent it to create more tension and reinstalled.  I have still have the reset issue.

I will fire the gun and keep the trigger held back.  I will then release the trigger and observe the reset.  Three or four times in a row it will move forward and reset properly.  Then that fourth or fifth time it stays back and won't reset.

What am I missing?  I love this gun, but I have to get this reset corrected.

[fastlane604]

Earlan357, are you out there?

[earlan357]

The disconnector spring shouldn't negatively effect reset, if anything it should reset easier since there less friction resisting the trigger bar.

Sounds like something is binding in the striker assembly.  Does the striker move freely inside the slide?  Clean out the striker channel and check if a small flake of brass got embedded in one of the spring cups or between the spring coils.  (Happens on my Glocks fairly often with high round counts)  Also check for gaps between the two cups or any evidence that they're coming part.  Are you using HBI's striker springs?  I've noticed that Glock spring cups fit aftermarket springs better and tend to move more smoothly in the slide.

Less likely possibilities are the trigger binding at the trigger bar pin or frame pin, but check those.  The trigger should rotate freely on both.  I doubt it's interference between the trigger bar and front or rear locking blocks since any contact spots would've have smoothed themselves out by now.

Is your HBI the newer one or one of the older ones with hooks at the bottom?  Some early gen1s had slightly different hole spacing, which raised the trigger bar slightly in the frame.  Made for a lighter break but on some guns the contact with the front locking block would prevent reset.

[fastlane604]

The disconnector spring shouldn't negatively effect reset, if anything it should reset easier since there less friction resisting the trigger bar.

Sounds like something is binding in the striker assembly.  Does the striker move freely inside the slide?  Clean out the striker channel and check if a small flake of brass got embedded in one of the spring cups or between the spring coils.  (Happens on my Glocks fairly often with high round counts)  Also check for gaps between the two cups or any evidence that they're coming part.  Are you using HBI's striker springs?  I've noticed that Glock spring cups fit aftermarket springs better and tend to move more smoothly in the slide.

Less likely possibilities are the trigger binding at the trigger bar pin or frame pin, but check those.  The trigger should rotate freely on both.  I doubt it's interference between the trigger bar and front or rear locking blocks since any contact spots would've have smoothed themselves out by now.

Is your HBI the newer one or one of the older ones with hooks at the bottom?  Some early gen1s had slightly different hole spacing, which raised the trigger bar slightly in the frame.  Made for a lighter break but on some guns the contact with the front locking block would prevent reset.

Thank you, Earlan357. I will check the striker channel and report back.  There are no hooks at the bottom of the HBI trigger.  I am using the HBI springs with the CZ spring cups. The trigger never fails to reset after the first failure. Meaning, when it fails to reset after firing a round and I pull back the slide slightly, it always resets.

[fastlane604]

The disconnector spring shouldn't negatively effect reset, if anything it should reset easier since there less friction resisting the trigger bar.

Sounds like something is binding in the striker assembly.  Does the striker move freely inside the slide?  Clean out the striker channel and check if a small flake of brass got embedded in one of the spring cups or between the spring coils.  (Happens on my Glocks fairly often with high round counts)  Also check for gaps between the two cups or any evidence that they're coming part.  Are you using HBI's striker springs?  I've noticed that Glock spring cups fit aftermarket springs better and tend to move more smoothly in the slide.

Less likely possibilities are the trigger binding at the trigger bar pin or frame pin, but check those.  The trigger should rotate freely on both.  I doubt it's interference between the trigger bar and front or rear locking blocks since any contact spots would've have smoothed themselves out by now.

Is your HBI the newer one or one of the older ones with hooks at the bottom?  Some early gen1s had slightly different hole spacing, which raised the trigger bar slightly in the frame.  Made for a lighter break but on some guns the contact with the front locking block would prevent reset.

Earlan,
I had to leave town shortly after your post.  I examined the striker and springs and cleaned the striker channel.  There was quite a bit of gunk in the channel.  I did not find anything caught in the coils of the striker spring or cups gapped open or out of alignment.  Alas, I just returned from the range and out of 10 rounds fired, three did not reset.

Before I reinstall the OEM trigger and check the reset, is there anything else you suggest I check?  Thanks.

[earlan357]

The disconnector spring shouldn't negatively effect reset, if anything it should reset easier since there less friction resisting the trigger bar.

Sounds like something is binding in the striker assembly.  Does the striker move freely inside the slide?  Clean out the striker channel and check if a small flake of brass got embedded in one of the spring cups or between the spring coils.  (Happens on my Glocks fairly often with high round counts)  Also check for gaps between the two cups or any evidence that they're coming part.  Are you using HBI's striker springs?  I've noticed that Glock spring cups fit aftermarket springs better and tend to move more smoothly in the slide.

Less likely possibilities are the trigger binding at the trigger bar pin or frame pin, but check those.  The trigger should rotate freely on both.  I doubt it's interference between the trigger bar and front or rear locking blocks since any contact spots would've have smoothed themselves out by now.

Is your HBI the newer one or one of the older ones with hooks at the bottom?  Some early gen1s had slightly different hole spacing, which raised the trigger bar slightly in the frame.  Made for a lighter break but on some guns the contact with the front locking block would prevent reset.

Earlan,
I had to leave town shortly after your post.  I examined the striker and springs and cleaned the striker channel.  There was quite a bit of gunk in the channel.  I did not find anything caught in the coils of the striker spring or cups gapped open or out of alignment.  Alas, I just returned from the range and out of 10 rounds fired, three did not reset.

Before I reinstall the OEM trigger and check the reset, is there anything else you suggest I check?  Thanks.

Do you notice a lot of initial force required to start the slide unlocking?  Have you checked to see if the disconnector reset spring is bent at all?

When I started getting my trigger below about 3.5#, I noticed a lot of drag on reset that was hidden by heavier striker springs.  The disconnector squeezes the trigger bar between the ramp and the inside of the trigger housing until the trigger bar moves forward enough to clear the side of the ramp.  The trigger housing has two vertical bars (circled in right pic) that protrude in toward the trigger bar.  I made sure the trigger bar around the kidney shaped cut and the inside of the trigger housing were smooth and free of burrs.  I also replaced the disconnector spring with a reduced power one from CGW.  But I could still feel a slight catch just before the trigger reset.  The culprit was the cross pin rubbing on the bottom inside of the kidney shaped slot.  I wrapped a small drill bit (the smooth end) with sandpaper and rubbed along the inside of the kidney.  I also broke the edges slightly.  Then hand polished with a cleaning patch wrapped around a q-tip shaft. 

[fastlane604]

The disconnector spring shouldn't negatively effect reset, if anything it should reset easier since there less friction resisting the trigger bar.

Sounds like something is binding in the striker assembly.  Does the striker move freely inside the slide?  Clean out the striker channel and check if a small flake of brass got embedded in one of the spring cups or between the spring coils.  (Happens on my Glocks fairly often with high round counts)  Also check for gaps between the two cups or any evidence that they're coming part.  Are you using HBI's striker springs?  I've noticed that Glock spring cups fit aftermarket springs better and tend to move more smoothly in the slide.

Less likely possibilities are the trigger binding at the trigger bar pin or frame pin, but check those.  The trigger should rotate freely on both.  I doubt it's interference between the trigger bar and front or rear locking blocks since any contact spots would've have smoothed themselves out by now.

Is your HBI the newer one or one of the older ones with hooks at the bottom?  Some early gen1s had slightly different hole spacing, which raised the trigger bar slightly in the frame.  Made for a lighter break but on some guns the contact with the front locking block would prevent reset.

Earlan,
I had to leave town shortly after your post.  I examined the striker and springs and cleaned the striker channel.  There was quite a bit of gunk in the channel.  I did not find anything caught in the coils of the striker spring or cups gapped open or out of alignment.  Alas, I just returned from the range and out of 10 rounds fired, three did not reset.

Before I reinstall the OEM trigger and check the reset, is there anything else you suggest I check?  Thanks.

Do you notice a lot of initial force required to start the slide unlocking?  Have you checked to see if the disconnector reset spring is bent at all?

When I started getting my trigger below about 3.5#, I noticed a lot of drag on reset that was hidden by heavier striker springs.  The disconnector squeezes the trigger bar between the ramp and the inside of the trigger housing until the trigger bar moves forward enough to clear the side of the ramp.  The trigger housing has two vertical bars (circled in right pic) that protrude in toward the trigger bar.  I made sure the trigger bar around the kidney shaped cut and the inside of the trigger housing were smooth and free of burrs.  I also replaced the disconnector spring with a reduced power one from CGW.  But I could still feel a slight catch just before the trigger reset.  The culprit was the cross pin rubbing on the bottom inside of the kidney shaped slot.  I wrapped a small drill bit (the smooth end) with sandpaper and rubbed along the inside of the kidney.  I also broke the edges slightly.  Then hand polished with a cleaning patch wrapped around a q-tip shaft. 

I haven't noticed any additional force on the slide.  The disconnector reset spring was not bent.  Thank you for the polishing tips.  Something I am going to do before taking it apart is put my P-10 F slide on my P-10 C  frame.  Should that not tell me for certain whether it is in the slide or the trigger/trigger bar?  Nothing  with the striker seemed to be amiss, but that should tell me for sure.

Here is another thought.  I did not buy this gun new.  It was sold to me with the trigger installed and was said to be unfired, which I believe.  The back of the trigger dingus hung up on the trigger notch in the  frame, ever so slightly.  Not enough to impede the trigger.  Just enough to feel a slight catch as I pulled the trigger through.  I shot it that way for several hundred rounds without a reset issue.  I figured when I had to take it apart for some reason, I would file the top of the trigger notch a little to eliminate the catch. I took the gun apart to install the reduced power disconnector reset spring.  At the same time, I filed the trigger notch to free up the dingus.  There isn't any way I created the reset problem by filing the notch, is there?   

As always, thanks for your advice.

[earlan357]

Did you by chance remove the mag catch at some point?  If you reinstall it with any of the spring coils above the shelf on the catch, the exposed coils can drag on the back of the trigger as it resets.

[fastlane604]

Did you by chance remove the mag catch at some point?  If you reinstall it with any of the spring coils above the shelf on the catch, the exposed coils can drag on the back of the trigger as it resets.

Aha.  Yes, I did. That may be it.  I replaced the OEM mag release with an HBI.  I did put the F slide on the C frame and it reset every time in 50 rounds.  I have to leave town again for several days, but when I get back I will reinstall the mag release.  Thanks, Earlan.  You are the man.

[earlan357]

Did you by chance remove the mag catch at some point?  If you reinstall it with any of the spring coils above the shelf on the catch, the exposed coils can drag on the back of the trigger as it resets.

Aha.  Yes, I did. That may be it.  I replaced the OEM mag release with an HBI.  I did put the F slide on the C frame and it reset every time in 50 rounds.  I have to leave town again for several days, but when I get back I will reinstall the mag release.  Thanks, Earlan.  You are the man.

Oops, I was referring to the ambi-catch on the C.  However, on the reversible models, the same thing could happen if the vertical retaining pin isn't seated fully in the mag catch.

[fastlane604]

Did you by chance remove the mag catch at some point?  If you reinstall it with any of the spring coils above the shelf on the catch, the exposed coils can drag on the back of the trigger as it resets.

Aha.  Yes, I did. That may be it.  I replaced the OEM mag release with an HBI.  I did put the F slide on the C frame and it reset every time in 50 rounds.  I have to leave town again for several days, but when I get back I will reinstall the mag release.  Thanks, Earlan.  You are the man.

Oops, I was referring to the ambi-catch on the C.  However, on the reversible models, the same thing could happen if the vertical retaining pin isn't seated fully in the mag catch.

Neither the back of the trigger dingus or the notch on the back of the trigger are rubbing on the vertical pin.  Both move freely.

[earlan357]

Did you by chance remove the mag catch at some point?  If you reinstall it with any of the spring coils above the shelf on the catch, the exposed coils can drag on the back of the trigger as it resets.

Aha.  Yes, I did. That may be it.  I replaced the OEM mag release with an HBI.  I did put the F slide on the C frame and it reset every time in 50 rounds.  I have to leave town again for several days, but when I get back I will reinstall the mag release.  Thanks, Earlan.  You are the man.

Oops, I was referring to the ambi-catch on the C.  However, on the reversible models, the same thing could happen if the vertical retaining pin isn't seated fully in the mag catch.

Neither the back of the trigger dingus or the notch on the back of the trigger are rubbing on the vertical pin.  Both move freely.

Reading back through your first post, when the trigger doesn't reset, is there spring pressure trying to push it forward, or is it completely dead to the rear.  If so, it sounds like the striker is skipping over the trigger bar.  One way to test is to hold the trigger to the rear and maintain downward pressure on the rear of the slide toward the grip as you cycle it.  Then repeat by pulling up away from the frame as you cycle it.  If the trigger doesn't reset when pulling up, the tolerances are such that the striker is just barley catching on the trigger bar when it returns.  While unlikely, the top surface of the trigger bar or it's ledge could be worn or chipped.  The striker tip could also be worn or the tip broken off.

Let's isolate the two halves of the gun.  You've already checked the striker for free movement and I'm guessing the firing pin block moves freely so we can ignore the slide for now. 

With the slide off and the trigger to the rear, manually move the trigger back and forth.  Push forward on the trigger bar at the front of the magwell while pulling the trigger back to slow the movement down and observe any rough spots of catches.

Then, with the trigger to the rear, slowly press in on the disconnector nub under the left rear frame rail.  Does the triggerbar pop up or does it seem sluggish as it lifts?  If it doesn't pop up crisply, there might be a burr or something worn in the disconnector notch that's hanging up the trigger bar from rising fast enough to catch the striker during recoil.  It could also be something on the right side of the trigger bar "nub" grabbing the edge of the disconnector ramp.

Lastly, any chance the coils and/or hooks on the trigger bar springs got stretched somehow?  The trigger springs not only counteract the force of the striker spring, but they pull the trigger bar upward to ensure the triggerbar pops up quickly and catches the striker during recoil.   Assembled in the trigger housing, the travel is limited, but during reassembly it's possible to open the hooks up, especially if using pliers to remove them from the trigger bar.

[fastlane604]

Did you by chance remove the mag catch at some point?  If you reinstall it with any of the spring coils above the shelf on the catch, the exposed coils can drag on the back of the trigger as it resets.

Aha.  Yes, I did. That may be it.  I replaced the OEM mag release with an HBI.  I did put the F slide on the C frame and it reset every time in 50 rounds.  I have to leave town again for several days, but when I get back I will reinstall the mag release.  Thanks, Earlan.  You are the man.

Oops, I was referring to the ambi-catch on the C.  However, on the reversible models, the same thing could happen if the vertical retaining pin isn't seated fully in the mag catch.

Neither the back of the trigger dingus or the notch on the back of the trigger are rubbing on the vertical pin.  Both move freely.

Earlan,
Thanks for the comprehensive suggestions.  I am on the road for several days.  When I get back to the gun, I will check out your suggestions and report back.  Thanks, again.

[fastlane604]

Did you by chance remove the mag catch at some point?  If you reinstall it with any of the spring coils above the shelf on the catch, the exposed coils can drag on the back of the trigger as it resets.

Aha.  Yes, I did. That may be it.  I replaced the OEM mag release with an HBI.  I did put the F slide on the C frame and it reset every time in 50 rounds.  I have to leave town again for several days, but when I get back I will reinstall the mag release.  Thanks, Earlan.  You are the man.

Oops, I was referring to the ambi-catch on the C.  However, on the reversible models, the same thing could happen if the vertical retaining pin isn't seated fully in the mag catch.

Neither the back of the trigger dingus or the notch on the back of the trigger are rubbing on the vertical pin.  Both move freely.

Reading back through your first post, when the trigger doesn't reset, is there spring pressure trying to push it forward, or is it completely dead to the rear.  If so, it sounds like the striker is skipping over the trigger bar.  One way to test is to hold the trigger to the rear and maintain downward pressure on the rear of the slide toward the grip as you cycle it.  Then repeat by pulling up away from the frame as you cycle it.  If the trigger doesn't reset when pulling up, the tolerances are such that the striker is just barley catching on the trigger bar when it returns.  While unlikely, the top surface of the trigger bar or it's ledge could be worn or chipped.  The striker tip could also be worn or the tip broken off.

Let's isolate the two halves of the gun.  You've already checked the striker for free movement and I'm guessing the firing pin block moves freely so we can ignore the slide for now. 

With the slide off and the trigger to the rear, manually move the trigger back and forth.  Push forward on the trigger bar at the front of the magwell while pulling the trigger back to slow the movement down and observe any rough spots of catches.

Then, with the trigger to the rear, slowly press in on the disconnector nub under the left rear frame rail.  Does the triggerbar pop up or does it seem sluggish as it lifts?  If it doesn't pop up crisply, there might be a burr or something worn in the disconnector notch that's hanging up the trigger bar from rising fast enough to catch the striker during recoil.  It could also be something on the right side of the trigger bar "nub" grabbing the edge of the disconnector ramp.

Lastly, any chance the coils and/or hooks on the trigger bar springs got stretched somehow?  The trigger springs not only counteract the force of the striker spring, but they pull the trigger bar upward to ensure the triggerbar pops up quickly and catches the striker during recoil.   Assembled in the trigger housing, the travel is limited, but during reassembly it's possible to open the hooks up, especially if using pliers to remove them from the trigger bar.

I am back in town and have been working through the suggestions.  The trigger resets when I pull up on the back of the slide.  The slide to frame fit is tight when pulling up.  The trigger bar pops up crisply when pressing on the trigger bar nub.  I tried this on my P-10 C, as well, and there was no discernible difference in the two with this exercise.  I have not removed the trigger bar springs from the trigger bar recently.  I did remove the trigger bar just prior to developing this reset problem, but I left it intact upon removal.  As I mentioned in an earlier post, the reason that I removed the trigger bar was to file off some material in the notch in the frame that the trigger travels through.  The dingus on the trigger was slightly catching on the top of the notch.  The dingus no longer catches, but the reset inconsistency arrived.  Coincidence?  I don't see how slightly opening the notch would cause the inconsistent reset.  But obviously, I am no expert.

[fastlane604]

I also failed to mention in the previous post that when I pushed the trigger bar forward and a pulled the trigger back and forth that it was smooth throughout the pull.  No catches of any kind.  Also, when I removed the trigger to file the trigger notch in the frame, I also changed out the mag release for an HBI mag release.

I just came from the range.  The trigger reset issue did not heal itself while I was gone. When the trigger does not reset, it is dead. There is no spring tension against it.  As I said before and verified this afternoon, the P-10 F slide works great on my P-10 C frame.