CGW P-10 10300 vs 10320 Striker Comparison

[earlan357]

The CGW #10320 Reduced Trigger Pull Striker and Spring for my P-10 came in yesterday.  I did some comparisons and ran it through my trigger dyno.  This was with my custom trigger springs and with my disconnector recut to 39 degrees.  I'll put the stock parts in tonight and retest.  Trigger is CGW's aluminum with pre-travel adjusted.

The #10300 Striker has the same leg profile as the OEM one, 90 degrees to the shaft.  The #10320 has more of an "S" shape.  It looks to be about 6 degrees from vertical, then radiusing slightly shallower near the tip.  This allows the trigger to "roll" slightly just before the break.

The included striker spring looks almost identical to a Wolff 4# spring.  The have the same wire diameter, O.D., free-length, and coil count.  However, due to the alloy CGW chose, it's heavier and behaves more like a 4.5# striker spring with peak force being 10oz heavier.

Unlike the OEM striker, there's little improvement to be had by polishing.  I clamped the striker in a vise, and used a metal rod backed with wet 2000 and 3000 grit sandpaper to hand polish the striker leg before final buffing.  I also slicked up the shaft slightly near the transition from where it narrows.  I eeked out just an ounce from before.

With the #10320 and 4# Wolff spring, the trigger is just too light for action shooting.  My attempts to find the wall quickly often resulted in AD'ing the trigger.  Tonight I'm going to reinstall my factory disconnector and play with both the 4# and CGW springs, as well as my 4.5# Wolff spring.  I'm hoping one of the combinations will maintain the 1# of pre-travel but increase the wall/break to 3#, similar weights as a 1911/2011 tuned for action shooting.  Then it's off to the range for live-fire testing.

[Joe L]

So, maybe it will be just right with a factory (maybe polished) 45 degree disconnector?

I just got home from shooting my P-10S at 100 yards with no changes other than the 10300 CGW striker and 4# striker spring and that combination is pretty darn good for me.  A little polishing when I put in the CGW trigger and disconnector spring and I'm done, I think.  I'm thinking the 39 degree disconnector would need a way heavy striker spring, like 5#, to get a 3-4 lb trigger pull. 

Looking forward to reading about what you find out when you swap parts this weekend.

Joe

[earlan357]

I re-installed the OEM 45 degree disconnector with a polish job.  I kept my custom trigger spring and used the 4@ Wolff striker spring.  The break weight (2lbs 12oz) is now the same as the SA on my SP-01 with just over 1lb of take-up.  I spent an hour chasing par times in dry-fire and only had one "AD" when I tried to beat a 4.6 sec El Prez.  The over-travel is back but the break is so crisp I'll live with it.  It feels like a mil-spec AR trigger just lighter.  The CGW reduced reset spring is necessary with a sub 4# trigger.  Otherwise, the reset is sluggish.

[Joe L]

So, how would one get the blue curve shape at 3 lb 8 oz? 

Any chance you got the curves labelled backwards?  The blue curve should match the 39 degree?  Less force, more travel?  Or did I miss which direction the angle is cut?  Is the modified disconnector steeper or flatter?  I have to go look at your original post.  Right now, it is too early for me to think well.

I'm beginning to think that it is easier, mechanically, to tune/modify the P-10 internals than it is to modify sears/hammers.  At least it is for competent engineering minds like yours and David's.

Joe

[earlan357]

So, how would one get the blue curve shape at 3 lb 8 oz? 

Any chance you got the curves labelled backwards?  The blue curve should match the 39 degree?  Less force, more travel?  Or did I miss which direction the angle is cut?  Is the modified disconnector steeper or flatter?  I have to go look at your original post.  Right now, it is too early for me to think well.

I'm beginning to think that it is easier, mechanically, to tune/modify the P-10 internals than it is to modify sears/hammers.  At least it is for competent engineering minds like yours and David's.

Joe

39 degrees from horizontal so flatter.  Mechanical advantage trades less force for more travel.  Raising  the entire graph evenly would be done with a striker spring with more pre-load.  Increasing striker spring rate would increase the overall slope of the graph.

[aflevine]

So, if I'm understanding your argument correctly, the longer 3.5" spring that comes with the HBI kit is desirable?

[schmeky]

The striker spring in our 10320 is the Wolff 4.5# version.  We have been discussing with our customers the use of the 4.5# Wolff spring with our 10300 and the reports have been very positive for reliable ignition. 

We also did a custom radii at the primer end of the 10300 and 10320 strikers to give the striker an improved depth of primer "hit" to ensure improved reliability with lighter striker springs.

[Joe L]

So, how would one get the blue curve shape at 3 lb 8 oz? 

Any chance you got the curves labelled backwards?  The blue curve should match the 39 degree?  Less force, more travel?  Or did I miss which direction the angle is cut?  Is the modified disconnector steeper or flatter?  I have to go look at your original post.  Right now, it is too early for me to think well.

I'm beginning to think that it is easier, mechanically, to tune/modify the P-10 internals than it is to modify sears/hammers.  At least it is for competent engineering minds like yours and David's.

Joe

39 degrees from horizontal so flatter.  Mechanical advantage trades less force for more travel.  Raising  the entire graph evenly would be done with a striker spring with more pre-load.  Increasing striker spring rate would increase the overall slope of the graph.

Understood, thanks.  Only springs I have are 4.0# Wolff for Glocks, and I am using the same spring in 3 pistols right now.  I have 10300 strikers in all 3 as well, and stock polished disconnectors and trigger bars in the C an d F. 

[earlan357]

Tested the CGW 10320 Striker today.  I shot about 100 rounds re-zeroing my optic and testing recoil springs for my competition ammo.  Shot a few B8's to warm up.  Then did a "burndown" to test my trigger springs.  Unfortunately, somehow I didn't record the first attempt so I had to reload all 200 rounds and do it again.  My hands were pretty smoked and I started cramping up about 4 mags in.  All in all, nearly 500 rounds in under 20 minutes.  CCI primers, zero light strikes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQCEl3ukstU

[Joe L]

Great test.  Combination looks reliable to me.

You will slow down just a little when you are older.  And you will forget to hit the record button more often.   

Joe 

[Indy_Tim]

This is a really good thread.  I have not done any mods to my P10S yet but am thinking that since it’s approaching the 500 round mark, it’s time to bring it up to par with my other P10s.  I like what I’m hearing about the new striker profile.

[Joe L]

Back to the 10300 vs 10320...

I went to the range this morning to shoot the Kadet and struggled, I think because I have spent the last few range visits with the P-10S and 10300 striker and 4# striker spring.  I may try the 10320 striker just to get the trigger feel closer to the Kadet feel.  I have struggled with this for years with the polymer guns, that is, adapting to the P triggers without loosing my touch on the steel gun triggers (75B and 97B"E").  Switching back and forth is also more difficult the older I get!  I'm going to have to dry fire the P-10S tonight a bunch in preparation for  rifle range session with the P-10S on Friday.  If that goes well, then I'll be able to put the S aside and go back to bullseye with the steel gun on Sat/Sun.  Maybe. 

More tomorrow afternoon.   

Joe   

[Joe L]

My range session with the P-10S got postponed until Sunday, but the 10300 versus 10320 striker performance characteristics came to light to me.  I ordered two of the 10320's today, one for the P-10F, and one for the P-10S first, then it goes in to the P-10C.  I struggled with the trigger control when shooting the P-10S at 200 yards.  This isn't all due to the striker by any means, but earlan357's results are interesting enough to make me want to try one in both range guns.  Whatever I carry -- 90% sure it will be the P-10S -- will have a 10300 striker in it.  But, after the 200 yard session with the P-10S on Sunday, I want to shoot some concistent sub 6" groups at 100 yards and sub 3" at 50 yards with the subcompact before I return it to carry service. 

Note that the results I got at 200 yards were not all good.  I struggled with the grip fit and technique for 30 rounds before I finally settled down and shot the gun well.  And, after struggling with the P-10S, I could't hit anything with the P-10F due to the differences in the two guns. 

This is fun.

Joe

[Joe L]

I installed the 10320 strikers and 4.5# springs in my P-10F and P-10S today, and added some grip tape and large insert on the P-10S.  I like the new striker just fine.  Trigger pull is not too light or too unpredictable for me at all.  It will take some getting used to after so many rounds with the 10300 strikers.  Everything is coming together on my trio of P-10 9mm pistols.

Joe

[aflevine]

After literally two months, I am so looking forward to getting my slide back from CGW along with the new competition striker and spring.  Joe, thank you sharing your observations.