Author Topic: Warning on SB Tactical CZPDW brace  (Read 5183 times)

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Offline AgentX3

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Warning on SB Tactical CZPDW brace
« on: September 28, 2019, 01:08:18 AM »
Those who have the SB Tactical CZPDW brace should know after owning one for a while that if you slam the brace back into full extension you will create burrs in the Manticore mount where the arms for the brace travel and the limiting screws impact the Manticore mount. It doesn't take much to create these burrs, a handful of times of hard impacts and you got some burrs in the Manticore mount caused by the limiting screws on the end of the arms interfering with the arms to the point that the finish is getting scrapped off the arms (previous owner did this, I learned early on not to slam the brace into full extension). Additionally these burrs interfere with the brace freely collapsing when you point the muzzle down and push the release button. I disassembled my S1 pistol with a manufacture date of 2018 with no problem at all (3/32" hex key for set screw and the fasteners acting as limiting stops on the arms) and filed down the burrs. Simple enough. Then I attempted to disassemble the SB Tactical CZPDW brace on my S2 Micro with a manufacture date of 2019. Holy cow. Some genius applied high temperature threadlocker to all three fasteners on the CZPDW brace. I've got sets of Bondhus t-handle hex key wrenches and I was twisting on my t-handle 3/32" hex key so hard I though I was going to break something, on all three fasteners. The CZPDW brace on my S1 was a piece of cake so I knew there had to be some threadlocker involved. So I get out my Leister Triac ST heat gun capable of putting out 700 degrees C (1,292 degrees F) on high in an extremely tight discharge pattern. I ran it WOT in order to reduce dwell time and avoid residual heat from spreading to parts I definitely don't want getting too hot, like the polymer receiver. I confined the application of heat to the set screw on the Manticore adapter while attempting to get the set screw to breakout every 15-20 seconds. The moment the set screw started to breakout i discontinued the application of heat. I still ended up getting the left side of the receiver too hot and now it's marred. I don't understand the need for high temp threadlocker on any of the three screws on the CZPDW brace, especially the set screw. It appears to me the stock retaining button is sufficient to retain the Manticore mount in place. Not only that, if you apply much more than moderate torque to the set screw it really digs into the polymer receiver. So why the heavy duty thread locker??

So be advised, it will take quite a bit of heat to get the set screw to breakout, and your Dewalt or whatever heat gun with it's wide discharge nozzle and lower temperature range will probably take so long and create so much residual heat that you could very well damage your receiver, at least the left clamshell side.

I cannot believe someone would apply this sort of threadlocker where no threadlocker is needed.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2019, 01:18:35 AM by AgentX3 »

Offline AgentX3

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Re: Warning on SB Tactical CZPDW brace
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2019, 07:52:28 AM »
Oh yeah, forgot to mention - the two screws acting as stops on the arms took as long to heat up to breakout temperature as the set screw, and once either one broke free there will literally sparks that shot out from both of those screws - I've never seen something like that before.

Offline Cohenj87

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Re: Warning on SB Tactical CZPDW brace
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2019, 09:59:57 AM »
I tried taking mine off right away because I hated the huge think block on the back and in the process my wrench broke of if the set screw for the unit to come off. I emailed CZ and got no response at all. Yes who ever decided to pretty much weld those screws in was an idiot. I also noticed on my PDW brace that at times it was extremely hard to extend or collapse. Never looked into the problem I just ordered a factory folder with tailhook.

Offline Chino1956

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Re: Warning on SB Tactical CZPDW brace
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2019, 01:49:43 PM »
Read your posts and decided to look at mine since I am thinking about changing to the folding brace on my Micro S2.  Guess what????  My 3/32 screw on the brace assembly just came out with no effort; no sign that it was ever threadlocked in.  Now - can anyone tell me how to get the brace off?  I'm thinking I have to insert a screwdriver or such item in through the rear where the spring is and push it in.  Is that correct?  I tried it and thought I had pushed in the button but the brace won't move up and I don't want to go any further until I find out exactly how to take it off.


ADDED - Got the brace off - SB Tactical on you tube:
« Last Edit: September 28, 2019, 02:38:52 PM by Chino1956, Reason: Added link »

Offline AgentX3

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Re: Warning on SB Tactical CZPDW brace
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2019, 03:38:45 PM »
Read your posts and decided to look at mine since I am thinking about changing to the folding brace on my Micro S2.  Guess what????  My 3/32 screw on the brace assembly just came out with no effort; no sign that it was ever threadlocked in.  Now - can anyone tell me how to get the brace off?  I'm thinking I have to insert a screwdriver or such item in through the rear where the spring is and push it in.  Is that correct?  I tried it and thought I had pushed in the button but the brace won't move up and I don't want to go any further until I find out exactly how to take it off.


You need to take a small blade screwdriver, one which will clear the spring (not too wide) and have a long enough shank to depress the stock retaining button in the back of the receiver. If the mount fails to move up easily while you're sure you have that button depressed then you need to use a delrin head hammer or whatever hammer you may have (padded with something like tape or whatever to keep from marring your Manticore mount) and give it some light taps to get it to move upward. The set screw can gouge into the rail that the Manticore mount slides on and that may be interfering with getting the Manticore mount to move upward easily. Pushing that button in does not require a whole lot of pressure, I've removed two Manticore mounts so far. The brief description in the video you posted about the stock retaining button being depressed seems like the narrator brushed aside how to do it but it really is as easy as he makes it sound, nothing to it.

Note the schematic on the CZ-USA website where it shows the stock retaining button (#22) -

http://shop.cz-usa.com/czpartslists/CZ_Scorpion.pdf

Offline Manticore_Arms

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Re: Warning on SB Tactical CZPDW brace
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2019, 03:48:09 PM »
A few things of note here:

1.  We did not advise CZ USA to use blue loctite on the set screw that mounts the block to the receiver.  That was their decision, I don't agree with it but that is what they are doing at the factory.

2. We never had intended or expected people to "slam deploy" the Arm Brace out to deploy it.  Once it became apparent that speed slamming the Arm brace out was a "thing"  a discussion with SB Tactical and Manticore led to the screws that retain the brace being changed from button head cap screws to low profile cap screws.  If you are having any issue regarding this please contact SB Tactical and they will get you squared away.

Sven
Manticore Arms

Offline AgentX3

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Re: Warning on SB Tactical CZPDW brace
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2019, 09:07:46 PM »
A few things of note here:

1.  We did not advise CZ USA to use blue loctite on the set screw that mounts the block to the receiver.  That was their decision, I don't agree with it but that is what they are doing at the factory.

2. We never had intended or expected people to "slam deploy" the Arm Brace out to deploy it.  Once it became apparent that speed slamming the Arm brace out was a "thing"  a discussion with SB Tactical and Manticore led to the screws that retain the brace being changed from button head cap screws to low profile cap screws.  If you are having any issue regarding this please contact SB Tactical and they will get you squared away.

Sven
Manticore Arms

Hey Sven, thanks for your input. I've got two of the CZPDW braces, I think they are perfectly suited to the EVO 3 pistols. IMO they are a vast improvement over the wire 'stocks' on old school subguns like the M3 grease gun, the Madsen, the Swedish K, the Mac 10, etc. If I get another Scorpion EVO 3 pistol it will also get the CZPDW treatment if it doesn't come that way.

The threadlocker used by CZ/whomever they hired to assemble the braces on these guns is definitely NOT blue Loctite. Even with my limited experience of applying a generous amount of blue Loctite 243 to fasteners including very tiny screws and then subsequently breaking them back out after curing I've NEVER had this sort of experience. They HAD to have used a threadlocker requiring high temperature for it to release. Also, when the retaining screws on the brace arms finally broke loose after over five minutes of nearly 1,300 degree F heat being applied from my hot air welder those two screws broke out with a *SNAP* while throwing out a very small shower of sparks when each *SNAPPED* (on the first one I thought to myself in disbelief, "Did I really see sparks just now??"). These three fasteners would have never broken out without high temperature so definitely not blue Loctite or any other threadlocker that doesn't require heat to release.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2019, 05:30:59 AM by AgentX3 »

Offline Manticore_Arms

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Re: Warning on SB Tactical CZPDW brace
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2019, 04:25:06 PM »
AgentX3,

I believe you on that, and kind of wish I could have seen it in person.

blue threadlocker on those strut screws is fine so they don't work loose, but sounds like someone get the super special sauce out that day for your screws!   :o

If I can offer any other input or help let me know.

Sven
Manticore Arms

Offline AgentX3

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Re: Warning on SB Tactical CZPDW brace
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2019, 06:20:54 PM »
AgentX3,

I believe you on that, and kind of wish I could have seen it in person.

blue threadlocker on those strut screws is fine so they don't work loose, but sounds like someone get the super special sauce out that day for your screws!   :o

If I can offer any other input or help let me know.

Sven

Manticore Arms

Thanks for the offer, but all is good with my CZPDW braces now. I've got no complaints, I love my CZPDW braces.

Offline funkeruski

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Re: Warning on SB Tactical CZPDW brace
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2021, 10:33:55 PM »
Went through this set screw nightmare today while trying to install the new SB Tactical brace on my Micro. Ended up having to drill out the bleep screw slightly marring the polymer underneath and ruining the threads where the set screw goes. Doesn’t really matter because I don’t see my self ever wanting to reinstall that POS telescoping stock.

As far as the set screw, why was it even put there in the first place?  It’s not on my regular SBR’s Scorpion or any other stock/brace I’ve seen.

Offline motorolanut

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Re: Warning on SB Tactical CZPDW brace
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2021, 03:49:11 AM »


Good advice from another forum:

https://treehozz.com/can-you-dissolve-loctite

Red is "Stud Lock"...Never on a screw you want to remove.

Blue, good for 1/4" and above, but can be used on smaller screws if you use a VERY LITTLE.

ONE DROP only !

Purple is for the small stuff.

Remember, you are only trying to avoid a screw loosening from vibration, not from a torque wrench...
Virtue has united, death shall not separate

 

anything