P-10S at 200 yards with a red dot and CGW striker, 4 lb spring

[Joe L]

Local range was busy Friday and Saturday mornings with .22 practice and silhouette match, so I couldn't shoot my P-10S at 200 yards until sunrise Sunday morning.  I wound up with an aim point 48" above the bullseye and maybe 6"  to the left, starting with a 25 yard single hand zero.  I used my standard Atlanta Arms 115 JHP ammo.  My OR model is fitted with a CZCustom PT2 adapter plate for a Holosun 507C red dot. 

I put a 50 yard target on a 2x1 stick held in place with a c-clamp to use an an aim point.  No wind, 6000 ft. above sea level, 55F, very sunny from 10 o'clock.  Absolutely perfect shooting conditions, but pretty harsh for video with cheap cameras! 

The video below shows the first five shots used as sighters to place the aim point, then the last 10 shots for the day.  It took me a few 5 round sequences to home in on the proper placement of the aim point, since I didn't have much freedom to move the target out of the lead catcher.  Also note that I have not fattened up and ovalized the P-10S grip, and forgot to bring my large grip insert, so the pistol does NOT fit me very well at all.  The only changes to the pistol besides adding the red dot are a CGW striker with a Wolff 4 lb striker spring and Glock keepers.  I have not done any polishing and I haven't put in the rest of the CGW P-10 parts yet. 

So, I struggled some getting the shots executed perfectly.  But the last 6 shots of the last 10 shot string are really good.  I finally executed a good trigger pull while the red dot was centered in the aim point.  And, I am sure there is some luck involved here also.  Bottom line is this, barrel length isn't too much of a limitation at 100 and 200 yards, IF a red dot sight is used instead of irons.  The muzzle velocity is maybe a little less than with a 4.5" barrel, but what really matters for any mechanically sound pistol is how consistently the shooter aims the gun from shot to shot, and how much the gun is moved as the shooter pulls the trigger. 

This is a 7 minute video.  Jump to the last third if you want to see what I consider to be a good group at 200 yards with a subcompact pistol.  Video should finish uploading by 2:45pm US mountain time. 

https://youtu.be/tAZDKkcstvg

I will reshoot this once I get the CGW parts in and Sugru on the little pistol.  I will need those modifications before I can grip it more consistently and move it less as I release the striker.  If I can get the fit and feel the same as my P-10F, pretty sure I can shoot some really good groups with the little subcompact.  Today was a really good trial run, that's for sure. 

Joe

[Joe L]

You can go to about 4:00 in the 7:00 minute video to see the good sequence, if you don't need the background about the setup and the aim point.
Joe

[nonamehavei]

Awesome! Thank you for the video, that is one accurate subcompact.

[Joe L]

Videos are fun...when everything works.  Here is a 2 minute version of the same video, with the 4 bad shots deleted and some of the intro cut.

https://youtu.be/-1o5bocyEV8

Joe

[Joe L]

10320 striker and some Sugru on order for the little subcompact. 
Joe

[Joe L]

I have just gone back and looked at my own P-09 videos and I believe I actually shot the little P-10S more accurately than the large pistol at 200 yards.  Maybe I have learned something this year afterall.  Shots 4 through 9 in the long video were in a group less than 6".  Only the last shot was a little off.  I would have been happy with that group at 100 yards with a big pistol. 



I have added some grip tape to the frame and will try 100 yards again later this week after I install the 10320 striker.

Joe

[coolbox]

While this does bust some myths about how inaccurate (or accurate) a handgun can be at rifle distances, more so a compact one, credit goes to the shooter really. This is not easy. Well done Sir.

[davekoch]

Nice shooting. That's better grouping than I've seen from some rifles. 

I need to try my pistols at 100y again. I have't done that for too long.

[Joe L]

Thanks, gentlemen.  I am working on a video showing HOW I have done this, now that I have been lucky enough to demonstrate that it can be done.  But I am still amazed that it is even possible with the subcompact.  I shouldn't have been, maybe, but I was.  More later this week.

Joe

[v35]

Thanks, gentlemen.  I am working on a video showing HOW I have done this,

May I ask... you obviously have two cameras going at the same time. How did you manage to synchronize them?

If you say you didn't, and just matched the two videos so that they seemed about right, that's OK too. They certainly appear to be linked together... somehow.

[Joe L]

Two independent small Canon camcorders, an R400 on the target and an R800 on the shooter.  I also use a Tascam DR-10L recorder and a lav mic on me.  With empty cards and full charge batteries, I can turn all three devices on to record and leave them running the entire session, so 1-2 hours.  I usually start the target cam first after setting up the shooter camera.  I hit record on both the camera and the voice recorder than clap my hands 10 times in the camera frame to use as a time sync reference for the target cam.  Then I go back to the shooter camera, turn it on record after setting focus and frame and exposure, clap 10 times in the frame.  Then I proceed to shoot.  When I'm done shooting, I stop both cameras and the voice recorder and go home.  Then I pull the three cards and copy all the files to the computer in one folder, open Power Director 18, and copy the files to Power Director.  I put the shooter cam files on one line, the audio on another, and the shooter cam files on a third line.  Because we have gun shots recorded on each camera as well as to the voice recorder, it is easy to see the spikes in the waveforms and very easy to rough align.  Then I expand the time line and look at the hand clap spikes and line them up.  Then I calculate how many frames it should take for the bullet to travel 200 yards and off set the target sound slightly to match the bullet travel time offset, kinda.  Then I usually kill the shooter cam sound track and use the voice recorder track, but sometimes leave the target cam sound on, just because it sounds neat to me.  I have to do some heavy duty limiting and compression in Audio Director to soften the pistol shots relative to the voice audio.

Professionals used time code generators on all three devices to make synching multiple recordings in post production a single push button operation.  I am not a professional and don't have that kind of equipment.   Gunshots are pretty simple to sync even when using inexpensive equipment.      

After synching the visual and audio files, I can shrink the shooter cam view down some and move it off to the side and then mask the target cam file and display both at the same time, similar to PIP or picture in picture.  I purposely shoot the target and shooter from the same side of the bullet path if possible, and a little wide, so that the two views look somewhat normal when put together in one frame.  Putting both views together is really easy in Power Director. 

I don't cut out the dead time between shots because I don't want anyone to think I faked the shots or the session.  I'd rather the video be dull and long but complete and 100% credible. 

It takes me about 30-45 minutes to set up the cameras and sound, and 2-3 hours to edit and produce the video after I get home.  Photo and video are another hobby of mine. 

Joe   

[v35]

That's some impressive post production work, let alone impressive shooting. Very professional. Well Done!

[Joe L]

Thanks.  I need to write out a script and use a teleprompter, and figure out how to clear my throat.  And practice.  A "how to" video really is much harder to do well than a "watch me shoot" video, believe me.  But pistol shooters generally cut me some slack, fortunately. 
Joe

[Joe L]

Here is the "technique" explanation video I made last weekend, just to complete the discussion about the 200 yard results.
https://youtu.be/YYPLoomZu0Q
Joe

[Joe L]

Can't wait to get back to the shooting range next week after getting new glasses, about 3 years overdue.  I think my red dot vision problems will disappear. 
Joe