Author Topic: CFE Pistol  (Read 604 times)

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Offline Grendel

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CFE Pistol
« on: October 07, 2019, 07:39:58 PM »
I loaded up some 44 special with CFE Pistol - 5.6gr, and man, it seemed to leave a lot of soot on the cases. Powder? or me?
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Offline George16

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Re: CFE Pistol
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2019, 08:19:06 PM »
It’s the powder. I noticed the same loading for open 9mm major power factor. I still have about 8 1/2” lbs left in my stash to go through.

Offline Grendel

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Re: CFE Pistol
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2019, 08:58:41 PM »
Thanks
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Offline timetofly

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Re: CFE Pistol
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2019, 09:13:58 PM »
I've used CFE pistol in 9mm, 40 S&W, and 45 ACP and it does not leave unburned powder or soot in the frame.  I use 115 gr, 180 gr and 185 gr bullets and load a midrange charge.  Around the case mouth there is a little soot there, but nothing worse than say Winchester WB.

Offline Wobbly

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Re: CFE Pistol
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2019, 02:39:36 AM »
There's a tremendous parallel between reading sparkplug color and deciphering the color inside the case. If you piddle with engines of any sort, you'll appreciate that in both cases you're simply burning fuel to do a job. One fuel is liquid, the other is pellitized... but the chemistry is the same.

For the speed you wish to push your bullets, my belief is that what you should see is no color to a light gray color inside the case. When you see those color signs, then the powder is burning very efficiently.

Black sooty cases are the result of inefficient combustion. In an engine we call it running "rich", meaning the fuel-to-air ratio is out of whack, and we can adjust that at the carb. In the case of smokeless powder it's too little pressure. So we add more powder in small incremental steps and raise the chamber pressure. Hopefully we find a chamber pressure that both the gun and the powder like.




This is not the world's greatest cartoon, but what the colored lines for the 4 powders are trying to indicate is that chamber pressure feeds on itself. Adding 0.2gr may raise the pressure by 1000psi, whereas adding 0.4gr (doubling) may raise the pressure by 5000psi (5x) !!

So what the reloader is looking for is a place where the pressure is high enough to burn efficiently (do the most work with the smallest amount of fuel), but still be within the safe pressure range for the gun, and delivering the desired accuracy (or energy for hunting).

 ;)
« Last Edit: December 15, 2019, 10:13:31 AM by Wobbly »
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Offline Grendel

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Re: CFE Pistol
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2019, 09:30:37 AM »
Thanks. I'm wondering if the fact that I'm loading 44sp in 44 mag cases, and therefore leaving quite a bit of empty space in the case is a factor.
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Offline George16

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Re: CFE Pistol
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2019, 09:40:09 AM »
I have noticed more soot when loading 6.4 Gr of CFE with 124 Gr PD JHP compared to 7.2 Gr CFE pistol with 115 Gr PD JHP for open major. Since the powder is more compressed in higher volume inside the case, I think it leads to credence that’s its being burnt more efficiently compared to less powder and more empty space inside the case.

Offline Wobbly

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Re: CFE Pistol
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2019, 10:03:22 AM »
Since the powder is more compressed in higher volume inside the case, I think it leads to credence that’s its being burnt more efficiently compared to less powder and more empty space inside the case.

That's exactly it. Fill the case with slightly more powder, or as the chart shows, find a slightly "faster powder". "Fast" powders are always "hotter" powders. That heat is one sign of higher pressures.

The way your loads are running right now, you're using Powder D. Optimally, you'd want to load so that the higher pressure portion of the curve is in the Useful Pressure Zone.

On the other hand, a more "optimal" load is going to hurt more to shoot. You might decide to leave things right where they are. Absolutely nothing is being hurt or destroyed. As long as you're not seeing a lot of black on the outside of the cartridge case around the case mouth, then you're getting a pretty good seal and things are fine. The only price you're going to pay is more gun cleaning.

Hope this helps.
   ;)
« Last Edit: October 08, 2019, 05:53:47 PM by Wobbly »
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Offline Grendel

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Re: CFE Pistol
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2019, 10:21:22 AM »
Perhaps a tiny scrap of TP is in order to take up the space!
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Offline M1A4ME

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Re: CFE Pistol
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2019, 02:48:53 PM »
Perhaps a tiny scrap of TP is in order to take up the space!

I don't think I've read of people doing that in pistol cases but the guys that use pistol powder for lead bullets in rifle cases used to use a cloth like material to take up extra space.  I'm not sure that wasn't to insure the powder stayed at the primer end of the case though, vs. improving burning characteristics.
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