Author Topic: Need Help with Practice  (Read 2943 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline M1A4ME

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5823
  • I've shot the rest, I now own the best - CZ
Re: Need Help with Practice
« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2019, 11:36:13 AM »
If the POI is where you want it when shooting from a rest, but not when shooting off hand, the issue isn't the sights or the loads.

Going back to the rifles (which have adjustable sights) I can't tell you how many people I've seen make a sight adjustment first thing Saturday morning ( to get it sighted in initially) and the part of the way through the day, as they pick up/use more of what is being taught about building a stable sling supported firing position, they have to adjust the sights again - because they way the hold the rifle has changed.

If you can work to strengthen your grip and your arms/shoulders you'll have more fun that buying new sights only to find they aren't quite right if you practice enough to get your hand/grip/arm strength up to the level you need.
I stopped carrying the SIG 556R.  SIG changed models and couple/three times and stopped supporting it with parts.  So, I stopped supporting SIG.  Back to the tried/true AR15 Carbine.

Offline Togmaster

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 233
Re: Need Help with Practice
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2019, 12:38:17 PM »
Buy a bunch of expensive new gear and guns....at least that's what a bearded youtuber said. O0

Offline rg422

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 46
Re: Need Help with Practice
« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2019, 03:58:09 PM »
I would focus on fundamentals and keeping it simple. I'm new to USPSA and just about everyone I have talked to says similar things - better trigger control and increase grip strength, especially the weak hand. Dry firing has helped me tremendously with maintaining CONSISTENT grip and trigger control. This has translated to much better live fire results, at least for me.

Richard

Offline rckendall

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 99
Re: Need Help with Practice
« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2019, 05:17:41 PM »
I would focus on fundamentals and keeping it simple. I'm new to USPSA and just about everyone I have talked to says similar things - better trigger control and increase grip strength, especially the weak hand. Dry firing has helped me tremendously with maintaining CONSISTENT grip and trigger control. This has translated to much better live fire results, at least for me.

Richard
Yes the fundamentals are what I am working on and better dry fire time is helping I believe. I now have a couple drills to do at my practice sessions which should help also. I plan to go tomorrow and I have several things to help me determine where I need to focus. I would be happy with my group size if they weren't low all the time.

I'll report after I get back from the range. Thanks to all who took the time to respond.

Richard

Offline Joe L

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6180
Re: Need Help with Practice
« Reply #19 on: December 06, 2019, 07:01:32 PM »
Richard,

I can offer some ideas, too.  It seems to me that you might be pulling the gun down slightly at the end of the trigger stroke when not shooting off a bag.  Here is how I learned NOT to do that....

I have to "prep the trigger", especially on pistols that have a less than perfect trigger pull.  By that, I mean I have to find how much pressure and movement I can put on the trigger without it going off, then line the sights up perfectly and make the last bit of movement of the trigger to release the hammer.  You can learn how much movement and how much pressure with a lot of dry fire practice, then try it at the range. 

I also have to keep my grip tight and absolutely constant while moving the trigger that last little bit. 

Here is a video I made years ago about "trigger prep".  Maybe you can find something to try.



Joe
CZ-75B 9mm and Kadet, 97B"E", two P-09's, P-07, P-10C, P-10F

Offline Rmach

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1133
Re: Need Help with Practice
« Reply #20 on: December 06, 2019, 08:11:42 PM »
The best advice I ever got lately was to squeeze the trigger at the break SOFTLY.  If your trigger breaks at 5#, just complete the trigger pull at 5.1#.
CZ Shadow 2 Orange, S2 urban gray, S2 black and blue, 3 polished stainless 75b's and a black 75b all with MCARBO kits and front Dawson FO.

Offline Joe L

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6180
Re: Need Help with Practice
« Reply #21 on: December 07, 2019, 06:30:20 AM »
Rmach--that's a shorter way of stating kinda what I was suggesting also. 
CZ-75B 9mm and Kadet, 97B"E", two P-09's, P-07, P-10C, P-10F

Offline rckendall

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 99
Re: Need Help with Practice
« Reply #22 on: December 07, 2019, 04:06:09 PM »
The best advice I ever got lately was to squeeze the trigger at the break SOFTLY.  If your trigger breaks at 5#, just complete the trigger pull at 5.1#.

As promised I'll try to give a good report as to the range time today. I had the range all to myself and the RSO worked with me the whole time. I started out at the 15 yd line shooting a reduced size silhouette target. I shot better than before but still needed improvement. After a bit I switched to a Guerrilla Approach Consistency drill that I like a lot. It has a series of small circles that demand accuracy and then some combinations of small and large circles. The large circles are to be engaged with a double tap.

I had to enlarge the targets for the 7 yd shooting distance at this range, but since the targets are all white it is easy to see the impacts immediately. My first string at these targets I could see I wasn't doing well. So I just slowed down to where I could feel the creep in the trigger, like at home doing dry fire, and the results started coming together. The second string I did great (for me). I decided to quit while I was ahead. I had shot around a 100 rounds in two hours and I felt really good.

So the important lessons I learned, in no particular order are: I like the white targets so that impacts are seen immediately, I need to feel the creep in the trigger before the shot goes off, I need to bring my left elbow in closer to the right arm (I think it locks my wrist), I need to rest in-between shots at times and relax my grip while doing so.

Edit to add: After sleeping on it and doing another dry fire session, I thought of a couple more small things that I did differently this time. For me I think I needed to make several small changes to get things right for me and these may change farther down the road. But, now I loosen my grip with the strong hand fingers, allowing them to move forward and giving me more room for my weak hand palm. I am now placing my trigger finger higher on the trigger, to the point that I feel the sharp edge at the top of the trigger.

The last string I was shooting about 1 1/4" groups at 7 yards and they were centered. What a change. Thanks everyone for your help and support.

Richard


« Last Edit: December 08, 2019, 12:42:01 PM by rckendall »

Offline Joe L

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6180
Re: Need Help with Practice
« Reply #23 on: December 07, 2019, 09:09:17 PM »
Great report!  Glad you are making progress.  Hang in there and keep at it.
Joe
CZ-75B 9mm and Kadet, 97B"E", two P-09's, P-07, P-10C, P-10F

Offline jurek

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1115
Re: Need Help with Practice
« Reply #24 on: December 08, 2019, 11:24:09 AM »
Great job rckendall!
I'm glad to see your progress...
Keep it up !  :)

Do not focus on white targets only... it's also bad habit to check hits after each shot...

Offline rckendall

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 99
Re: Need Help with Practice
« Reply #25 on: December 08, 2019, 12:34:23 PM »


Do not focus on white targets only... it's also bad habit to check hits after each shot...

Thank you. I see this step as one of many down a long road. I think confidence and a positive attitude help a great deal, and when I see a hole where my front sight was when the shot broke, it is very satisfying. I am not focusing on it, it just shows up!

Also in my searching for help on line, I found many different drills to use for practice and finding one that suits the particular needs is important I think. The drill I am using is really geared for someone beyond my capabilities but I see what the goal is and use it as best I can.

Richard

Offline Rmach

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1133
Re: Need Help with Practice
« Reply #26 on: December 08, 2019, 01:06:20 PM »
Good to hear!  I have to remind myself constantly at the range to squeeze softly/gently at the break.  Otherwise, I'll fall back into the bad habit of jerking/slapping the trigger.
CZ Shadow 2 Orange, S2 urban gray, S2 black and blue, 3 polished stainless 75b's and a black 75b all with MCARBO kits and front Dawson FO.

Offline jurek

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1115
Re: Need Help with Practice
« Reply #27 on: December 08, 2019, 02:37:42 PM »
Great !!!
Drills are important. They are better than just shooting at target. You need a little challenge to make a progress for every step of learning shooting.
You Tube is a mine of information about drills, just pick up whatever fits your current path of learning.
Good luck !

Offline larry8061

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 93
Re: Need Help with Practice
« Reply #28 on: December 13, 2019, 12:45:10 PM »
So freehand....exactly what are the struggles ??? I've been in the same boat...but it's important I think to discuss if your skills are lacking for "bullseye shooting" or defensive shooting ??
Personal training has it's drawbacks...finding a Good instructor to do one on one might be costly if the first one isn't good for you. Unless you have a personal recommendation...looking thru the yellow pages might not be the best way to proceed.
Be interested in your response as I also have much room for improvement !!!

First of all, thanks for all the replies and I continue to search for the problem, and today maybe I discovered something? Besides not shooting very good groups, they are all low. Something is making the gun dip when I shoot, ever so slightly I guess. It isn't very noticeable when I dry fire and everything seems solid. I have modified my stance so that I feel more stable fore and aft, and my grip to get more weak hand palm on the pistol and locking the weak hand wrist. It all feels really good. But shots are still low.

Yesterday I shot from a sandbag with the fore end on the bag, as I would with a rifle and all the shots were perfectly centered. I have experimented with my stance and grip, and it all feels good when dry firing but my results on paper is discouraging. Today I left early as no improvement was showing, but on the way home I realized again that my trigger finger was sore where is contacts the lower portion of the trigger. So I begin to wonder if that low trigger contact is causing the issue?

I hate to blame the equipment, but I am just searching everywhere for help. I watched a couple Rob Leatham videos and one by Guerrilla Approach and two of them concentrated on grip. Any suggestions are welcome.

Richard



1. Loaded goes low, dry fire is fine typically is anticipating the shot.  It could be useful to find a GOOD instructor to insure you have a good grip on the gun.  Stance won't matter if you don't have a hold of the gun.  As Leatham points out the sites don't matter if you don't have a hold of the gun.

Offline larry8061

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 93
Re: Need Help with Practice
« Reply #29 on: December 13, 2019, 12:46:35 PM »
Very similar issues for me as well. I've made improvements by more grip pressure strong hand in the web and middle/ring finger. More coverage on the support hand, and more pressure than I ever did. Focus has greatly improved on constant trigger finger pressure pulling to the rear, and not changing the pressure in a jerking motion. It's a combination that works for me when I put it all together !!


What he said! Particularly the off hand additional pressure.