Author Topic: Danger, Will Robinson, Danger, nobody hand loads to +P!  (Read 1173 times)

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Offline armoredman

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Danger, Will Robinson, Danger, nobody hand loads to +P!
« on: October 11, 2019, 01:17:57 AM »
Or do they? Accurate actually publishes +P handgun data in their manual. How here actually loads home rolled to hotter velocities, and why? How well has it worked for you?

Offline Tok36

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Re: Danger, Will Robinson, Danger, nobody hand loads to +P!
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2019, 03:25:09 AM »
I have thought about it but i have not done it. It is not something that i am in a hurry for. Even for factory ammo i am not a +P fan. I am interested to hear other forum members input on the subject.
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Offline SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM

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Re: Danger, Will Robinson, Danger, nobody hand loads to +P!
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2019, 04:52:28 AM »
Many of my manuals list +p loadings for various powders and bullet combos. I load my practice 9mm ammo to simulate the recoil of my defensive ammo but it's not at +p levels. I see no good reason to beat my 9mm's,.45's,0r 38spl's  up with ammo like that. I have .357 and .44 magnums if I want or need more power.

Offline Earl Keese

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Re: Danger, Will Robinson, Danger, nobody hand loads to +P!
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2019, 07:08:49 AM »
I've never seen a need to load to those levels. I don't buy +P factory ammo either. I really don't see the need for it.

Offline M1A4ME

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Re: Danger, Will Robinson, Danger, nobody hand loads to +P!
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2019, 08:17:03 AM »
The only time I've considered the +P loadings is for the 9MM 124 grain (future) loads for that M&P 2.0 5".

The best shooting loads so far (even after the Apex trigger kit and Apex fitted barrel - I fitted it, not Apex) are the Winchester 124 grain NATO loads which Winchester doesn't call +P.  Winchester states the muzzle velocity is up around 1200 fps.  The only 1200 fps 124 grain loads I see in the manuals are +P loads.  Bought some AA#7 based on data on the Accurate Arms reloading manual on line.  Just haven't done anything with it.  Bought some Hornady 124 grain hollow points a few days ago to start some testing.

A few years back I was trying out some TAC in .223 and .30-06 (never got around to trying it in .308).  I worked up .223 loads and found the most accurate load in my 16" (mid length gas system) and 20" (rifle length gas system).  Great, good accuracy, metered great/consistent, easy to load, etc.  Winter time eventually came around and I found that (on a below freezing range day) the ammo would not function in the 20" AR15.  People recommended going "hotter" to get it to function but I walked away from it (for the .223).  I load for function and groups, not for velocity.  Accurate Arms has a 5.56X45 reloading section for hotter loads than .223 Remington, but I can do just fine with BLC2, H335 and IMR4198.  The TAC will work find in the .30-06 for sure, maybe even the .308.

My personal feeling about +P loads is if you feel you need more velocity to make "your" cartridge do it's job maybe you should check out a different caliber.

Remember all those complaints?

Oh, a .40 is too snappy.  So you want to jack up a 9MM and make it recoil more?

Oh, a .308 kicks too hard.  So you want to jack up your .223 and wear it out quicker?

Oh, a .38 special won't do the job.  So you "hot load" a .38 vs. just going to a .357 magnum?

Sorry for the mini-rant, but folks, seriously.  More powder = more pressure = more wear/tear and closer to the "oh darn my rifle/pistol just broke" line.  Just like adding a turbo charger to a car engine equals more cylinder pressure, higher combustion/exhaust temperatures and decreased oil life (maybe engine life, too, but the mass of sensors and computer control at least helps reduce the chance of catastrophic failure in car engines vs. hot loaded fire arms).  If you don't believe turbo/super chargers are tougher on engines explain why the oil change on my V6 Coupe is 7,500 miles and on the turbo 4 cylinder it's 5,800 miles.  Someone on a Ford forum mentioned that the oil change frequency on the new twin turbo V6's in Ford trucks/Expeditions is 3,000 miles?  I've been running 6,000 miles on oil changes for the last 20 or more years with synthetic oil on all my V6s, V8s, 4s.  No issues.  But none are "abused" by a turbo either.

But, some people like "living close to the edge."
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Offline tdogg

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Re: Danger, Will Robinson, Danger, nobody hand loads to +P!
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2019, 03:09:09 PM »
I roll my own with Viht 3N37.  I don't know if they are +P given the powder is that slow/stable but if you compare velocities achieved against the Accurate +P data, they are on par with those comparable max velocities.  So +P is relative :).  I push mainly Speer Gold Dots for my HD loads in both 9mm and 40S&W.  Plenty accurate and not too harsh to shoot regularly (albeit spendy).

Cheers,
Toby




Offline SoCal

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Re: Danger, Will Robinson, Danger, nobody hand loads to +P!
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2019, 03:28:45 PM »
+P is a pressure designation, it is related to velocity but not in a linear way.  For example VV 3N38 will push a 147 Hornady XTP to 1200 FPS (per VV max load) with out exceeding normal pressures, however N340 only gets you to 1015 without exceeding max. load.  So to get the same velocity with N340 you would be well into +P pressures or beyond.
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Offline tdogg

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Re: Danger, Will Robinson, Danger, nobody hand loads to +P!
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2019, 10:54:48 PM »
Socal,

That was my point, not well written.

Where the rubber hits the road is how fast your pushing the bullet.  Pick a powder that will push it safely at the velocity you desire.   No good reason to push a faster powder into +p territory to achieve a velocity you could obtain more safely using a slower powder.

Cheers,
Toby

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Offline Wobbly

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Re: Danger, Will Robinson, Danger, nobody hand loads to +P!
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2019, 07:21:41 PM »
I roll my own with Viht 3N37.  I push mainly Speer Gold Dots for my HD loads in both 9mm and 40S&W.  Plenty accurate and not too harsh to shoot regularly (albeit spendy).


Toby -
I had to start rolling my own SD loads for use on wild animals. [There's been a rash of small, rabid fox attacks in my area this year.] I've been very impressed with the accuracy and expansion of the Berry Mfg knock off, the Hybrid Hollow Point
https://www.berrysmfg.com/product/bp-9mm-356-124gr-hhp

Berry sells these in the 250 pack, which brings the price down considerably from Gold Dots.


Sorry for the "bunny trail".  Now back to the main discussion.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2019, 07:27:03 PM by Wobbly »
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Offline aandabooks

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Re: Danger, Will Robinson, Danger, nobody hand loads to +P!
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2019, 07:54:07 PM »
The 9mm loads that I make for my CZ Czechmate are not published anywhere in any reloading manual.  They are beyond the level of +P by a margin of a couple hundred feet per second.  My "hot" 115gr load will go over the chrono at 1520FPS.  I can shoot these loads out of non-comped steel frame guns but they are violent.  Out of the Czechmate they are soft and flat shooting loads.

Offline Shadow knows

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Re: Danger, Will Robinson, Danger, nobody hand loads to +P!
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2020, 11:07:24 PM »
I have loaded to +P in 45 in my 1911.  Trained with that for a few hundred rounds then re sprung and shot down to power factor. 

It was a fun learning tool at the time.

Offline AZ_CZ

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Re: Danger, Will Robinson, Danger, nobody hand loads to +P!
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2020, 11:20:19 PM »
I use to but for an UZI and my Blackhawk revolver with the 9mm cylinder. Fun times. My thought now days is if I need more power (velocity or bullet weight) then maybe what I need is a different caliber like 40, 357 Sig, or 10mm.
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Offline DWARREN

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Re: Danger, Will Robinson, Danger, nobody hand loads to +P!
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2020, 02:20:41 AM »
I have loaded to published max but never over,. I like my hands and face to much to take a chance.
Some may do so but this is a area where much care must be taken!
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Offline NMShooter

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Re: Danger, Will Robinson, Danger, nobody hand loads to +P!
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2020, 03:38:03 AM »
I have pushed some 10MM loads close to high book, but never to or over book. Too hard on the gun and whats the point anyway? If I want really hot rounds I buy Underwood or Buffalo Bore, which I don't shoot often, again, too hard on the gun. Buffalo Bore has never given me trouble, but I've had Underwood bulge cases (not in a Glock). 

Offline timetofly

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Re: Danger, Will Robinson, Danger, nobody hand loads to +P!
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2020, 08:49:38 AM »
I've used +P data to see if a max load and +0.1 grains would be a problem when reloading on a progressive press.  Other than that, I see no valid reason for me to need +P ammo or loads.