Author Topic: Federal HST vs Winchester Ranger 127+P+  (Read 8149 times)

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Offline DHoback

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Federal HST vs Winchester Ranger 127+P+
« on: August 28, 2007, 06:41:58 PM »
Wondering if any of you using these two. I have been using HST in 45 exclusively. No other round I tested even came close to it's expansion/penetration ability. Best of both worlds in 45 IMHO.
           
            But what about the 9mm. Have not paid any attention to 9mm in some years now. Just got back into the round with my new SP-01. So, who uses what? Federal versus Winchester. Anybody test them side by side out of a CZ?

Offline Dos

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Federal HST vs Winchester Ranger 127+P+
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2007, 06:53:32 PM »
Haven't used either.  I really question the use of +P+ in anything though.  I have read where the HST is number one on the charts though.  Since you mentioned 45acp,  Have you tried the Barnes  "copper bullet" loaded by Taurus, Corbon DPX, and Federal VitaShock  in any of  your tests.  They're 185 grainers.  I'm looking for a good load in a 3 1/2" barrel.

Offline DHoback

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Federal HST vs Winchester Ranger 127+P+
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2007, 03:14:36 PM »
I have not used the corbon DPX. I have seen good reviews, but prefer the HST. Recently I did some testing with the HST. The 9mm HST is just as impressive as the 45. While hunting small game, I had the chance to take a rabbit with a 9mm HST out of my SP-01. The damage inflicted was incredible. The bullet entered the animal's left side lungs and exited on the right leaving a huge wound. The entire right side was blown out. This tells me two things. The bullet design starts major tissue damage within 3-4" of penetration and continues for at least 6"(the width of the rabbit) Gel tests have shown the 12" minimum penetration capability of this round. I have not seen  this kind of trauma caused by any other HP design. I don't feel any testing with the Winchester is even worth while. The Federal load is my new carry round. It is also a standard pressure load.

mbott

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Federal HST vs Winchester Ranger 127+P+
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2007, 07:00:53 PM »
Quote from: DHoback
I don't feel any testing with the Winchester is even worth while.
Don't count out the Winchester ammo.  In the head to head tests that I've seen, the Winchester RA9TA 127gr. T-series ammunition performs extremely well and would be my choice over the HST.  And when the enhanced T-series ammo gets into production early next year, I think it will be even more superior to the HST round.

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Offline DHoback

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Federal HST vs Winchester Ranger 127+P+
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2007, 08:07:36 PM »


Offline DHoback

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Federal HST vs Winchester Ranger 127+P+
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2007, 08:12:39 PM »
I don't count Winchester out. The T-series is a great line of ammo. I would not put much faith into the new enhanced ammo. early, unbiased tests have already showed a severe lack of penetration with it. Also, the design is going to suffer from core jacket separation , as the jacket itself is what causes the large expansion. I think Winchester should stick to the proven line of T-series and stop riding on federal.

ClarkstonCZ

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Federal HST vs Winchester Ranger 127+P+
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2007, 08:29:57 PM »
I've never seen the HST or Federal Tactical locally, and little of it online. Since I live literally 3 miles from the SPEER factory. Gold Dot ammo is what you see in the shops. A few boxes of Ranger T wind up on the shelves but is cruely expensive.

The Gold Dot holds together nicely and has a proven stopping power record among cww holders and forces like the NYPD.

Double Tap Ammo takes the Gold Dot to an even higher level.

Offline Radom

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Federal HST vs Winchester Ranger 127+P+
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2007, 08:36:47 AM »
Most testing I have seen actually favors the Remington Golden Saber loads. I shoot Gold Dots (124 gr +P) myself. Like Kevin mentions, they can't have a jacket separation failure. Every Gold Dot I have recovered retained over 95% of its nominal weight.
The artist formerly known as FEG...

mbott

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Federal HST vs Winchester Ranger 127+P+
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2007, 06:46:36 PM »
Quote from: DHoback
I don't count Winchester out. The T-series is a great line of ammo. I would not put much faith into the new enhanced ammo. early, unbiased tests have   already showed a severe lack of penetration with it.
 

If you have evidence of any either the severe lack of penetration or jacket separation, please share.

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Mike

Offline William Chase

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Federal HST vs Winchester Ranger 127+P+
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2007, 11:51:05 AM »
The absolute best reference on ammo I've com across is the AR15.COM Ammuniton Forum.

Much science, little BS.

Bill
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CZ75 P-01   CZ52 (53)  S&W 642  
1903 M96B Carl Gustaf Swedish Mauser Remington 870 Wingmaster 12Ga
USPSA Area 4, Brazosland Pistoleros

Offline DHoback

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Federal HST vs Winchester Ranger 127+P+
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2007, 06:15:59 PM »
Quote from: mbott
Quote from: DHoback
I don't count Winchester out. The T-series is a great line of ammo. I would not put much faith into the new enhanced ammo. early, unbiased tests have     already showed a severe lack of penetration with it.
   

If you have evidence of any either the severe lack of penetration or jacket separation, please share.  

--  
  Mike
 

I don't have evidence. Just my opinion on it. Some months ago I read a few articles concerning the ammo. Penetration was described as "adequate" This is the same terminology given to the HST when it first hit the scene. In reality, "adequate" meant NOT ENOUGH. The first testing in actual hands with HST showed very poor penetration. Sometimes less than 10". Federal quickly realized their mistake and adjusted the current line of HST to meet or exceed the 12" minimum. I have photos of the Enhanced T series expanded in gel. The secret to the huge expansion is the partial core/jacket separation itself. I don't believe it will take much to separate altogether. But, I may be wrong. I'll have to test some when I can get my hands on it.

Offline Radom

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Federal HST vs Winchester Ranger 127+P+
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2007, 09:40:10 AM »
I just found some Winchester Ranger 127 gr. +P+ for $24.99/50. I am going to try it in my P-01. I will post my chronograph data when our range thaws out. 124 gr +P Gold Dots do not quite make 1,200 fps in a P-01. If the Ranger clocks in at 1,200 fps or higher, I may switch over if it is not beating the heck out of the pistol.

IMHO, you reach a point where the slight gain in velocity isn't worth the wear and tear on a pistol. I have always been leery of the Ranger load in the past. I will say this: it definitely has the die-cut talons.
The artist formerly known as FEG...

mbott

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Federal HST vs Winchester Ranger 127+P+
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2007, 04:03:47 AM »
FEG,

Post the product number as I'm curious about what you are testing. RA9TA? Any information from the end panel will be nice, too. Thx.

Most of the agencies I sell to use the standard RA9T (147gr) instead of the RA9TA.  Those that still carry 9mm guns, that is.

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Mike

Offline Radom

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Federal HST vs Winchester Ranger 127+P+
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2007, 08:09:48 AM »
Dear Mike,

I am at work right now, but I can get that. I do remember it says that you cannot use it in UZIs, which makes me a little leery. I would have thought an UZI action was plenty strong.
The artist formerly known as FEG...

Offline Radom

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Federal HST vs Winchester Ranger 127+P+
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2007, 12:59:57 PM »
Quote from: mbott
FEG,  
 
  Post the product number as I'm curious about what you are testing. RA9TA? Any information from the end panel will be nice, too. Thx.  
 
  Most of the agencies I sell to use the standard RA9T (147gr) instead of the RA9TA. Those that still carry 9mm guns, that is.  
 
  --  
  Mike
 

The end panel reads "9mm LUGER +P+/ 127 gr. SXT  RA9TA."

Where do I find the lot #?  I don't see it.
The artist formerly known as FEG...

 

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