Good starting powder for 9mm Luger and 38 special?

[jwc007]

Primarily, I use WST for Berry's Plated and Cast Bullet Loadings in 9mm and .38 Special.

For Jacketed 9mm, I use Alliant Red Dot for Bullets weighing 115 grains or less.  However, Bullseye will also work.

For FMJ 9mm Bullets weighing 124 grains, I use either Alliant Green Dot or Vihtavouri N330.

For Jacketed 147 grain Bullets, I generally use Hodgdon HS-6/W540 or Alliant Blue Dot, but I prefer HS-6/W540.

[Wobbly]

I'm a noob reloaded too and am using HP38 for 38/357. I don't have any other powder to compare it against, but am very happy with the accuracy I'm getting with it, certainly no worse than I get from factory ammo.

And that's where I advise all beginners to start. W231/HP-38 has a really wide load range in 9mm, so if you're measuring skills aren't up to speed it's no big thing. W231/HP-38 also meters very precisely, so it's easy to get highly repeatable target loads. And it's easy to find under one of the 2 labels.

It's a great universal powder to keep around and will have some application in almost any pistol cartridge from 32Auto up to 10mmAuto. It's not fabulous, and it's not terrible. It's simply a good, all-around, workhorse pistol powder.

[Wobbly]

I dislike Titegroup totally.  It heats up the gun too hot very quickly and easy to double charge you load and blow up the gun.

The entirety of your post leaves something to be desired but I'll concentrate on the above statement ONLY. This is a terrible if not completely irresponsible statement. Many people use this powder in a safe and effective fashion and what your statement calls into question ENTIRELY is your overall handloading practices. You are the one responsible for the proper dispensing of powder not the powder. Check, recheck, and triple check if need be but proper charging of cases and ALL other aspects of handloading are the sole the responsibility of the person assembling the cases.

And I think your assessment is off-track and uncalled for. The man is allowed to have an opinion, just as you are. You don't have to like it and you can disagree without the attack. So cool your jets.

Yes, Titegroup is a very "fast" power; one of the fastest. Fast powders are hot burning powders. One user here had it burn the end of his FO front sight after firing a couple of hundred rounds in a competition !

It's also very dense, and with a very narrow load range, so measuring it accurately is mandatory. Yes, lots of people use it. That is, lots of people with very good powder measuring skills and equipment. These are usually people who use a lot of powder, and in that application one of the main attributes is low cost.

I don't own it, use it or recommend it.

[lewmed]

 I've been rolling my own ammo since the mid 70's listen to Wobbly. Over the years I have acquired many different smokeless powders some I use often some seldom get used. One of my least used powders is Hodgdon Titegroup the ones I use most for medium pistol loads are Sport Pistol, W231, CFE Pistol and A#7. The only time I've used Unique in the last 20 years is for 158 gr lead 357 mag. and 240 gr lead 44 mag. revolver ammo.

[WW Martin]

I took a look at my empty 9mm brass, checked component cost and came to the same conclusion. Not cost effective.  A case of Winchester 115 gr white box cost $322 delivered from Midway with free shipping. The price of primer and bullets.
Saved brass and casting your own bullets and it becomes cost effective. But prefer to use my primer stash for 38/357 and 40S&W with cast bullets.
The last 9mm I loaded was with discontinued IMR SR-4756 . Before that WW231. I don't care for the smell of Unique burning so always used WW-231in  most of my handgun reloading.

Bill

[M1A4ME]

Primarily, I use WST for Berry's Plated and Cast Bullet Loadings in 9mm and .38 Special.

For Jacketed 9mm, I use Alliant Red Dot for Bullets weighing 115 grains or less.  However, Bullseye will also work.

For FMJ 9mm Bullets weighing 124 grains, I use either Alliant Green Dot or Vihtavouri N330.

For Jacketed 147 grain Bullets, I generally use Hodgdon HS-6/W540 or Alliant Blue Dot, but I prefer HS-6/W540.

I bought a SIG 2022 9MM almost 2 years ago.  Just couldn't get it to shoot (like a CZ) with any of the reloads that shoot good in the CZs or the factory ammo that shoots good in the bigger M&Ps.  I ran across one of my very old Speer reloading manuals (#10?) and it had loads for Green Dot powder for 9MM.  I loaded up some trial/test stuff using Berry's 115 grain FMJ/plated bullets and darned if it didn't wake that SIG up.  Decent groups compared to everything else I'd tried.  With those loads it changed the nature of that SIGs groups on paper.

That's just one more thing you can do reloading your own ammo.  Work up loads you can't buy that make the gun outperform what you can buy.

Some of those old "shotgun" powders (Unique, Red Dot, Blue Dot, Green Dot, Herco, etc.) can be very good pistol powders, too.  You just don't see much data in the books for them anymore.

I let someone talk me into buying some True Blue awhile back.  I've not used it, yet.  I thought I was getting something to replace the Blue Dot I've been unable to find.  Should have looked at the reloading data/burn rates prior as it's much closer to Unique than Blue Dot.  But it is supposed to meter very uniformly/consistently.  If it shoot good groups in the pistols it could replace Unique in the .38's and .45's.  Might work in the 9s but so far I've not seen Unique to work well for me in 9MM (.40 S&W either).

[lewmed]

 True Blue is a very fine spherical powder and meters great I think you will like it is perfect for 38 spl. 44 spl. and 45 Colt and all weights of 9mm.

[Clueless Newbie]

I've been rolling my own ammo since the mid 70's listen to Wobbly. Over the years I have acquired many different smokeless powders some I use often some seldom get used.

I've only been rolling my own since the mid 90's and have acquired several different smokeless powders also. Gotta start somewhere and W231 HP-38 is as good as anywhere else for a starting point.

Yes I realize this is a 3 year old thread

[bang bang]

I plan on reloading 38 special first, and then get into 9mm Luger loading after I get used to 38 special reloading.

One of the instructors at a local range I go to swears by Unique powder for most pistol loads, especially for revolver cartridges like 38 special. While load data exists for 9mm Luger Unique loads, I have heard a couple people recommend Titegroup or Bullseye powder for 9mm Luger loads. What powder did you folks start out with when you started reloading for these 2 cartridge types?

so, its been several years now since you started this post.

what have you learned ?

its not for me, but for those following me and everyone else.

[SemiSharma]

I stumbled upon this thread and noticed that it's a bit old, but I'll still share my two cents. When it comes to starting with reloading 38 special and 9mm Luger, I think it's always best to start with a powder that has a lot of load data available and is known to be versatile. The unique powder is a solid choice, especially for revolver cartridges like the 38 special. As for 9mm Luger, I've heard good things about both Titegroup and Bullseye Powder. It depends on what you're looking for in terms of performance. 

[IDescribe]

I've used a bunch of Titegroup.  But I don't really recommend it. It's not terrible.  It's fine.  And it actually gets clean around max load. I just don't see any need to shoot around max load with a powder that gets temperamental quickly above max load.  I do not know how much hotter it is than regular powders, but I do know that beyond heat, there is something in it that is corrosive to polymers (or whatever the equivalent of "corrosive" is when talking about polymers).  It killed a couple of FO rods of mine, and I initially attributed it to heat.  But there is a photo somewhere here on these forums of the polymer cylinder of my powder drop, where later on I left Titegroup in accidentally for a few weeks while I was gone, and it melted it, no heat involved.  And instead of a stiff hard polymer cylinder, it was rubbery.  So I don't know for sure if it killed my FO rods through heat or some other chemical process.

Some powders are dirtier than others because they're flat dirtier.  Some are dirtier because of how we load them.  There is a charge weight with everything low enough that you will not get a pressure seal fast enough after primer detonation, such that powder will blow out of the case into the chamber as it's igniting, and gunk up the gun. 

As to a powder recommendation -- Bullseye is just amazing.  It's old and dirty, but it's super consistent, super versatile, and produces tight groups.  It's what I ultimately settled on for gamer loads.   If I were loading 124gr for 1200+ with 9mm, I'd go with Power Pistol (which if memory serves is a variant of Bullseye, the same way BE-86 is). 

But I still think the best 9mm SD loads are the 115gr Barnes XP/XPD.  They are solid copper hollowpoints, so they expand more slowly than JHP, super consistently, aren't as significantly affected by barriers, and achieve the penetration of heavier 147gr JHP.  But they are 115gr doing about 1100 feet/sec, which is a soft-shooting load.  They're 130-ish PF.  No need to load stout loads for SD practice if that's your SD load.  You can use the same loads you use for the sports.

Rambling complete. 

[Wobbly]

Rambling complete. 

ID... It's really good to have you back.

[IDescribe]

Rambling complete. 

ID... It's really good to have you back.

Thank you, sir.     I stop in now and then to read.  But another recent job/life change will have me settled in one location year 'round, and if I start shooting again with regularity, comments here (AND of course a ton of load data) could get regular. 

[armoredman]

In regards to the original question, I have discovered Accurate Arms #2 handles just about everything I need in both calibers.

[Clint007]

On the Titegroup topic, this was the powder handed to me by the person at the Dillon store in Scottsdale in like 2009 or so when I started reloading. I knew nothing. Thankfully  I hired a recently retired Dillon guy to shepherd me thru the learning process on my 550. I survived. I do agree with the criticisms about Titegroup. It’s not a good starting powder and I have nothing to add beyond Wobbly’s excellent-as-usual pointers.

I have a lot of TG and one advantage is in my very carefully and well honed automation for loading bulk 9mm. I am short time and when I have it, I load lots. Like 10-20k rounds in a weekend.

Because it doesn’t fill the case much it doesn’t spill during rapid indexing. I don’t buy it anymore, but had lots to use up.  My system, honed over years of adding sensors and carefully watching thousands of rounds being made, is pretty much….bullet proof. (See what I did there? . The powder sensor that checks the case fill level for every round is key here.

As mentioned it has some weird chemistry and discolors the powder measure plastic….esp  the Dillon hoppers. Thankfully if you walk in with a stained hopper they pretty much hand you a new one by the time you reach the counter…

C