Loading 9MM for accuracy

[NMShooter]

Hello I've been a reloader for a number of years, but when it comes to loading for pistols or revolvers, I've never really tried to get maximum accuracy out of my loads, mostly concerned with velocity and penetration. (10MM Auto, 45 ACP, 460 S&W) If I could consistently hit a paper plate at 50 yards I was ok with the load. I started shooting 9MM recently and really enjoy it. Having the brass land next to me instead of 50 feet away and a lot lower cost is an added bonus. So I ordered a CZ Tactical Sport 9MM. Now I need some coaching.

Instead of asking for your favorite loads, I'd really rather get information on loading techniques for accuracy. I go to the nth degree with rifle brass because it is so critical but other than using the same manufacturer what else is critical in relation to the brass? Uniforming primer pockets necessary? How much to bell and how much to crimp?

Plated bullets appear to be fine according to what I've read. What type i.e. round point, flat point, hollow point do you prefer and why? What grain bullets are generally best at 50 yards and under? I don't want to shoot lead bullets. I shoot hard cast for my woods and hunting loads with my 10s and 460, but would rather avoid them.

OAL. Makes a difference with rifle loads, how much difference does it make with pistol loads? I usually load to suggested OAL for pistols unless I have to adjust to accommodate to the magazine.

Primers can make a big difference with rifle loads. Does it matter with a pistol load at short range distances?   

I don't care about velocity or power factor, I don't compete. Maybe I'll get in the old guy division in a couple of years when I retire, but for now I just want to shoot the most accurate loads I can make. Thanks in advance for your replies.

[Boris_LA]

Let me start with my findings on the 9mm loading for Bullseye. I am sure soon other more experienced reloaders will chew this science down for you.
Brass should be the same head-stamp and generation (number of loadings) good for 4-6 loads, after that moved to loading practice rounds.
Bullet is the biggest factor. JHP is more accurate because of uniform base and long bearing surface, but for CZ need to be loaded short, to avoid touching the leade/rifling. DO plunk test for any bullet you try. The most accurate are Hornady XTP/HAP. Second best are Precision Delta and Zero JHP.
9mm needs to go fast for stabilization. 124(125)gn around 1040fps, 115gn- 1100fps. Small pistol primers, there is no measurable difference in brands as long as they ignite reliable in your gun. Primer pocket needs to be clean, tumbling takes care of that, but other brass prep ls not necessary. Consistent powder measure is a must. Less than 0.1gn extreme spread for many powders. The most accurate loads usually found in the second half of recommended loading range, but not the max.

[Dan_69GTX]

I'll restate what he said - OAL is important for safety, not so much accuracy in pistol. 

PLEASE do the plunk test to verify your OAL!

I'll agree with most other things said.  Some find that a coated lead bulllet is more accurate than the JHP - you'll need to test that in your gun with various types - and speeds - of powder.  For me, I've found that some powders are great for one bullet, but open up the grouping with another (of the same weight bullet).

[M1A4ME]

Consistency in components and process.  You won't be making consistent ammo without consistent components and consistent process/methods.

Then there's your pistol.  Only you know if it shoots well enough to suit you.  Before you go blaming the pistol, make sure it's not the ammo or you.  If it's the pistol you can modify it to make it more consistent, too.

Your pistol will tell you what it "likes", both from a reliability aspect and for small groups.

Some pistols just shoot better with a bullet that another pistol won't shoot well - so try different bullets and powder to find what works in your pistol.

The cartridges have to fit in the magazine, feed from the magazine into the chamber and fire - safely.  People have already mentioned how to insure your cartridges will fit/fire in your pistol's chamber safely.

[Wobbly]

Hello I've been a reloader for a number of years, but when it comes to loading for pistols or revolvers, I've never really tried to get maximum accuracy out of my loads... If I could consistently hit a paper plate at 50 yards I was ok with the load. I started shooting 9MM recently and really enjoy it.

Whoa! 150 ft is a really long way for a pistol. You're going to need highly consistent loads made with highly consistent components. I'd start by contacting the man himself.... member Joe L. Joe has some killer distance videos.

Instead of asking for your favorite loads, I'd really rather get information on loading techniques for accuracy. 

Use the same brand (and batch) of brass. If your collection of 9mm brass isn't going to give you the qualities you're wanting, then buy new StarLine brass online.  https://www.starlinebrass.com/

Plated bullets appear to be fine according to what I've read.

There are a few plated bullets that do good enough at 25 feet, but for longer distances you'll need first quality jacketed. Typically JHP.

OAL makes a difference with rifle loads, how much difference does it make with pistol loads? I usually load to suggested OAL for pistols unless I have to adjust to accommodate to the magazine.

There is no set OAL for auto pistols. The barrel-to-bullet fit dictates the Max OAL. SAAMI says the Min OAL for 9x19 is 1.000", so your OAL could conceivably range anywhere within 0.160". The jump to the lands is probably in 25th place of importance behind so many other obvious factors. Read all the Stickies at the top of this Forum.

Primers can make a big difference with rifle loads. Does it matter with a pistol load at short range distances? 

 
For short distances 'no', but my testing indicates that you need to use Federal primers if you want maximum consistency and really low SD numbers.

Choice of powders and bullet weight are going to be critical. Probably a slower powder for distance. You'll want a chrono for sure because you'll want your loads to have an SD number below 10.

Hope this helps.   

[skin]

 I'm OCD about reloading. For 9mm, there are two types of reloading for me,  plinking and target. This is what I concentrate on for target ammo.
Brass: 1. Trim brass to same length. Inside and outside champher. Uniforming primer pockets will help some,but a lot of work. You can decide if is worth it.
Bell case mouth just enough for a bullet to start in the case mouth. Taper crimp should be bullet dis + case mouth thickness x 2. Mine usually are around. 378.
PAL. I do the plunk test then make it 10 thousands shorter or to fit mag, whichever is shorter.
Primers can make a difference. A chronograph would help find out if you need a hotter primer. Some powders are harder to ignite than others.
Bullets, I  like Sierra, Nosler and Speer in that order. You can try others to see if they work for you.
I almost forgot. Deburring flash hole. Helps some, but very little in return for more work. You must decide.
The last batch of 9mm I reloaded had an extreme spread of 4 fps. 1104 fps using 115gr bullet from a p07.

[NMShooter]

Thank you all for the great information. Several suggestions/techniques are new to me. I'm excited to get started. I checked a recent load I had crono'd for one of my 10MMs - SD was 14. I'm really interested to see how much I can improve upon that. I'll check back to this post in case more responses come in and I'll report back on my results. Thanks again!

[M1A4ME]

SD for velocity doesn't always mean your groups are smaller.  I recall a few threads over the years where people were very surprised their bullet to bullet velocity was as variable as it was based on the small groups they were shooting with that load.

Measuring velocity is okay, but also monitor the group size and keep a record/average for a particular load.

[Wobbly]

SD for velocity doesn't always mean your groups are smaller. [snip] Measuring velocity is okay, but also monitor the group size and keep a record/average for a particular load.

I agree. You can never argue with good results. By using SD, I was searching for metrics the OP could use to tell if his techniques were improving or not. There's a difference between paying and paying off !

Another necessary definition might be to more clearly nail down the distance. The OP said 50 yds, but then seems to suggest distances might vary. I'm not sure that rounds built for long distance are by definition always going to be accurate at much shorter distances. I'm also not sure that the expense and trouble of reaching 50 yds and beyond is always required for accurate loads at, say for instance, 7-10 yds.

 

[George16]

The most accurate powder I have used was VV N320. I used it when developing my accuracy load using federal primers, same head stamp brass (federal, blazer or Remington) with 124 Gr Precision Delta JHP.

I didn’t shoot this powder in USPSA since it was hard to come by at the time so I settled with Winchester 231. Then Alliant sport pistol powder came out and I switched over again. I’m still a happy camper.

I tried bullseye shooting but standing there hurts my back so bad. Besides, it’s boring and the competitors are mostly older gentlemen and old enough to be my dad lol j/k Joe L..

[Dan_69GTX]

I tried some bullseye shooting - had to as part of the NRA World shooting championship.

Wow - that isn't easy - totally different technique, muscles, etc.  A guy in my squad had almost all in the black (25 yards slow fire).  I had a few on the paper.  (Using supplied guns, not your own).  I asked him how often he shot bullseye - once a week for 6 years.  WOW!

[George16]

I tried some bullseye shooting - had to as part of the NRA World shooting championship.

Wow - that isn't easy - totally different technique, muscles, etc.  A guy in my squad had almost all in the black (25 yards slow fire).  I had a few on the paper.  (Using supplied guns, not your own).  I asked him how often he shot bullseye - once a week for 6 years.  WOW!

Yup. Wow! Is the same word that came out of my mouth watching them shoot. I don’t have the discipline and willpower not to move any part of my body while trying to shoot those Xs.

Same thing goes with the .22LR bullseye shooters I talked to after the match every first Sunday of the month on the range I go to practice for USPSA action shooting. I think the youngest shooter I met was about 65-67 years old and the oldest was 86 years old. He was still having fun too and still good at it.

[Joe L]

NMShooter--These guys all know about reloading, I don't.  I do know what I would use as a standard for comparison to your hand loads, however.  I've been using Atlanta Arms 115 gr JHP ammo for 6 years with excellent results in a variety of CZ 9mm pistols.  Sub 2" groups at 50 yards from a wrist rest with a best of nearly 1".  Sub 4" at 100 yards, sub 7" at 200 yards.  The ammo is repeatable.  I don't know what bullet they use, what powder, or what primers, but the combination works great.  I'm sure there are other sources that are also good, but I quit looking years ago. 

Here is a link to some 100-200 yard videos if you are interested. 
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL7GbOFIiTV0xt-yUxqYvFX6tek_pEmLes

I haven't learned to reload because I don't need another hobby.  I retired this year, so I should be able to shoot more often, then the expense will become a factor and I might have to try it!   

Good luck with your efforts, and these guys can help you as needed.  All I can do is cheer you on. 

Joe

[MadDuner]

I am really watching this thread.....
I had no idea that a different primer or brass would have an effect on accuracy.  I’ve been playing with different projectiles and powders, but must not shoot well enough to tell the difference.

[Wobbly]

This is the Joe L video that simply slays me...

video

Target with a 'dinky' sub-$400 P-09.