Please splain this to me...

[igolfat8]

I recently purchased. P-01 Omega which I am trying to break in. We went to the range again tonight with it and my G34 MOS. I continued to shoot each Pistol, side by side, with a multitude of different loads and bullet weights. On every case the P-01 has  noticeably lighter recoil. Why does the smaller compact pistol have a noticeably smoother and lighter recoil impulse? This little pistol is a pleasure to shoot.

[jurek]

Glad to hear you like P-01 Omega. It's really nice shooter.

On every case the P-01 has  noticeably lighter recoil. Why does the smaller compact pistol have a noticeably smoother and lighter recoil impulse? This little pistol is a pleasure to shoot.

Perhaps it's because G34 doesn't have smooth and light recoil? 

[seebee62]

P 01 has a metal frame vs polymer of the Glock. I would think the P01 would have less felt recoil.


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[Insert]

I'd imagine the loaded weight for the P-01 is lighter than the G34. The CZ also has those internal slide rails which really do help with handling the recoil.

[Phlyers13]

Ergonomics is a big factor but the size of the slide and recoil spring on the 34 are huge factors as well. That’s almost 9” of metal moving back towards you with a 16lb recoil spring flinging it back forwards on every shot. A lot of people change theirs out to the 13lbers.  With that said, the ergos on the CZ and low bore axis will usually result in lower recoil than almost any other 9mm platform. That’s part of what makes them so awesome.

[M1A4ME]

The hammer on a CZ is cocked by the rearward movement of the slide.  So the slide is compressing both the recoil spring and the hammer spring.  The hammer springs can be as heavy (strong) as the recoil spring (weight rating, not saying it's the same size).

The striker on the Glock is cocked (or grabbed by the sear) as the slide goes forward to also load the next round.  So no counterforce to recoil as there is on the CZ hammer fired pistols.

There's also some mechanical resistance to the process of cocking the hammer by the slide.  Not just friction but multiple pieces/parts/leverage and the way they fit and work together.

[Earl Keese]

I wouldn't place too much emphasis on bore axis. The glock bore axis is actually lower than the CZ. Springs, ergos, and individual perception play a larger part IMO. Recoil and muzzle flip are different things and are perceived differently by different people.
https://www.guntweaks.com/pistol-bore-axis-comparison-what-is-low-bore-axis.html

[Walt Sherrill]

I'd imagine the loaded weight for the P-01 is lighter than the G34...

Actually, the unloaded weight of the P01 is  28.1 oz. while the unloaded weight of the G34 (Gen 4) is 25.9 oz, so the Glock is about 10% lighter than the CZ P-01, and the polymer frame has a bit of flex which can subtly reduce felt recoil.  I suspect that CZ's superior ergonomics and extra weight are the main factors in its better felt recoil. 

That said, I've owned several Glock 34s and many CZs over the years and consistently got the best results with a 34 in IDPA competition.  I found the my CZs tended to be a bit more accurate than my Glocks, but it wasn't a big difference. 

In the gun games speed and accuracy are  important, and I was always a little bit faster with a Glock 34.  I haven't competed much in the past10 years, and the P-09 and P-10 now seem to be the way to go if you like polymyer-framed guns

If I were still shooting a lot of IDPA, I'd probably shift to a CZ P-09, which has CZ's superior ergonomics and extra weight (31 oz.), or the slightly lighter P10F (28.2 oz.).  Both offer larger capacities than any stock Glock, which is ideal for some USPSA/IPSC divisions.   (I do have a P10C, but at the moment I seem to like my SIG P320 a bit better.)

The CZ also has those internal slide rails which really do help with handling the recoil.

I've  heard claims about the CZ's internal rails helping with accuracy, but I can't think of any way, either theoretical or practical, that those internal rails can have much effect on felt recoil. 

• Those internal rails are also unlikely to have a great effect on accuracy, since the bullet is out of the barrel by the time the slide has moved a fraction of an inch (maybe 1/10" of an inch or so).

Longer or tightly fit rails might be useful in assuring more-consistent lockup, but there is no real evidence that INTERNAL RAILS are a significant factor, unless all of the parts affected by slide movement are also equally well-fit. And the expense or expertise  needed to do that will jump  costs or knowhow required substantially.

[igolfat8]

I’ve got a 12 lb recoil spring in my 34 and the stock (16?) in the P-01 but I’m not so sure that is what’s leading to a softer recoil impulse?

Thanks for all of your ideas and suggestions.

I’ve been a speed shooter for the last decade playing in IDPA, Steel Challenge, Bowling Pins, 3 Gun, Falling Steel and anything else we can dream up 😄  I’ve won a lot of matches with my 34’s but in the last two years my TSO times have left my best 34 times in the dust. I can shoot my fairly stock TSO faster than my open 34. The CZ platform seems to fit me very well. Who am I to question success?

[Walt Sherrill]

I’ve been a speed shooter for the last decade playing in IDPA, Steel Challenge, Bowling Pins, 3 Gun, Falling Steel and anything else we can dream up 😄  I’ve won a lot of matches with my 34’s but in the last two years my TSO times have left my best 34 times in the dust. I can shoot my fairly stock TSO faster than my open 34. The CZ platform seems to fit me very well. Who am I to question success?

That doesn't surprise me.  But I'd argue that the TSO, even in stock form, is a much more specialized and refined weapon than either the P01 or the Glock 34.   

[Insert]

I'd imagine the loaded weight for the P-01 is lighter than the G34...

Actually, the unloaded weight of the P01 is  28.1 oz. while the unloaded weight of the G34 (Gen 4) is 25.9 oz, so the Glock is about 10% lighter than the CZ P-01, and the polymer frame has a bit of flex which can subtly reduce felt recoil.  I suspect that CZ's superior ergonomics and extra weight are the main factors in its better felt recoil. 

That said, I've owned several Glock 34s and many CZs over the years and consistently got the best results with a 34 in IDPA competition.  I found the my CZs tended to be a bit more accurate than my Glocks, but it wasn't a big difference. 

In the gun games speed and accuracy are  important, and I was always a little bit faster with a Glock 34.  I haven't competed much in the past10 years, and the P-09 and P-10 now seem to be the way to go if you like polymyer-framed guns

If I were still shooting a lot of IDPA, I'd probably shift to a CZ P-09, which has CZ's superior ergonomics and extra weight (31 oz.), or the slightly lighter P10F (28.2 oz.).  Both offer larger capacities than any stock Glock, which is ideal for some USPSA/IPSC divisions.   (I do have a P10C, but at the moment I seem to like my SIG P320 a bit better.)

The CZ also has those internal slide rails which really do help with handling the recoil.

I've  heard claims about the CZ's internal rails helping with accuracy, but I can't think of any way, either theoretical or practical, that those internal rails can have much effect on felt recoil. 

• Those internal rails are also unlikely to have a great effect on accuracy, since the bullet is out of the barrel by the time the slide has moved a fraction of an inch (maybe 1/10" of an inch or so).

Longer or tightly fit rails might be useful in assuring more-consistent lockup, but there is no real evidence that INTERNAL RAILS are a significant factor, unless all of the parts affected by slide movement are also equally well-fit. And the expense or expertise  needed to do that will jump  costs or knowhow required substantially.

First point was mistake, I had it the other way around! 

Second point: I believe the internal rails allow you to choke up on the frame more than other guns as well on reducing slide mass to some extent. I wonder what a P-01 slide's weight is compared to a G19's slide....

[igolfat8]

"Second point: I believe the internal rails allow you to choke up on the frame more than other guns as well on reducing slide mass to some extent. I wonder what a P-01 slide's weight is compared to a G19's slide...."


I'd respectfully disagree with your second statement because the CZ's beavertail limits how close you can get your strong hand grip to the slide. My strong hand has scars from my Glock's slide rubbing my hand's web between my thumb and index finger. There is no way to get my strong hand as high on a CZ as I can on a Glock. Perhaps others can show us how but I can't.

I will weigh my 19 and P-01 slides and post the weights later.

[Walt Sherrill]

I will weigh my 19 and P-01 slides and post the weights later.

I haven't been able to find a slide weight for the P01 anywhere, so I look forward to your P01 slide weight figure.  That said, I'm not that the Glock 19 slide weight will add much to this discussion, as the Glock 19 is noticeably lighter than the Glock 34, which was the Glock first mentioned.

• According to a source on the Glock Talk site, the (Gen 4) Glock 34 slide weighs 13.04 oz,  and Glock says the unloaded (mag in) gun itself weighs 25.93 oz.

• The same Glock Talk source says that the Gen 4 Glock 17 slide weighs 12.40 oz., and Glock tells us that the (mag in) weighs 24.87 oz.

• Glock Talk tells us that the Glock 19 slide weighs 12.19 oz. and Glocks says the unloaded (mag in) Glock 19  weighs 23.63 oz.

Glock stretched the 17 slide by about an inch when making the 34, but opened up the top of the slide to keep the overall balance of the gun in hand the same as the Glock 17.   

Glock adjusts slide weights to control slide velocities for models that share a common frame  -- which is why those various models can use the same slide recoil assembly (as is the case with the 19, 23, and 38) regardless of caliber. 

The Glock 17, 22, 34, 35, and 37 NOW share the same frame, but that was apparently not the case when the .40 models were first introduced.  All of these models now use what was  .40 frame regardless of caliber.

[jurek]

P-01 OMEGA:

• gun with 14 rd mag: 28.15 oz
• gun w/o mag: 25.26 oz
• slide with barrel, rod, spring: 14.32 oz
• slide only: 10.93 oz

[igolfat8]

Thanks for your numbers JUREK. Our numbers differ which I assume is the differences in our two scales but they are close enough for government work

Here is what I measured (in grams):

P-01 Omega
360 grams,  complete slide, barrel & guide rod assembly, 12.85 oz
283 grams, less barrel & guide rod assembly. 10.1 oz

G19.5:
430 grams,  complete slide, barrel & guide rod assembly 15.35 oz
319 grams, less barrel & guide rod assembly. 11.39 oz

G34.4 MOS (with slide cutout):
494 grams,  complete slide, barrel & guide rod assembly, 17.6 oz
341 grams, less barrel & guide rod assembly, 12.17 oz