Author Topic: Can a pistol become conditioned to a recoil spring?  (Read 2153 times)

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Offline dbarn

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Can a pistol become conditioned to a recoil spring?
« on: November 19, 2019, 08:56:43 PM »
Have an SP-01 that has in excess of 10,000 rounds through. It's mostly had 11lb recoil springs that have been changed every 2500-3000 rounds. I shoot this pistol a lot and have become intimately familiar with it.

Recently I swapped springs to 13lbs. My POI changed slightly as well as my group consistency, being less accurate with more flyers at distance shooting. Being the only variable, I swapped back into the 11lb spring and my consistency was back to normal. Anyone else experience this? Could the lock up and wear with this many rounds condition this pistol to 11lb springs?

Offline Vinny

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Re: Can a pistol become conditioned to a recoil spring?
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2019, 09:28:21 PM »
Have an SP-01 that has in excess of 10,000 rounds through. It's mostly had 11lb recoil springs that have been changed every 2500-3000 rounds. I shoot this pistol a lot and have become intimately familiar with it.

Recently I swapped springs to 13lbs. My POI changed slightly as well as my group consistency, being less accurate with more flyers at distance shooting. Being the only variable, I swapped back into the 11lb spring and my consistency was back to normal. Anyone else experience this? Could the lock up and wear with this many rounds condition this pistol to 11lb springs?
Interesting question.
Same ammo?  And what kind (PF?) may I ask?
I personally believe every pistol, even the exact same model, has a somewhat unique personality. I  suppose it's a matter of timing, slide friction, barrel fit, trigger etc.

I run the heavier stock springs in my SP-01 Tac which I believe are 16-17 lbs. when new but tend to drift closer to 15lbs after 500-1000+ rounds. However, I tend to run hotter 124gr ammo near 400lbft. (S&B 124 @1181fps =146.44PF is typically what CZ uses to test-fire at factory) similar to my SD ammo; and she seems to like it.

The old saw comes to mind...."If it ain't broke.......

I'm interested in other's comments though.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2019, 09:43:22 PM by Vinny »
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Offline jurek

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Re: Can a pistol become conditioned to a recoil spring?
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2019, 09:28:27 PM »
Was 11lb original/ factory spring?
Switching recoil spring with different weight may result with worse accuracy and consistency.
I experienced the same going from 16lb to 14lb. I was dissatisfied with my shooting results and had few ammo failures. I went back to original 16 lb spring and my accuracy is perfect again.
I'm not sure if 11lb spring will make damage to pistol, just check if your model can handle it. However I don't see any problems here, people are using even lighter springs.

I've got also 1911 pistol, which usually uses  18lb - 20 lb spring. I've switched to 12lb to have better control on this gun and better accuracy and so far not extra wear.

Make some research. Sometimes springs  are made to particular ammo values (Velocity x Bullet Weight = Power Factor).

Offline SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM

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Re: Can a pistol become conditioned to a recoil spring?
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2019, 09:38:40 PM »
I think it has more to do with the shooter being conditioned to how the gun operates or more importantly how the gun operates once you have it tuned to your liking. Then you change the way the gun behaves with a different item like a heavier recoil spring and your accuracy suffers. Same thing when switching ammo that is hotter or lighter than what you normally shoot and do well with.  Think of shooting powder puff .38 specials for thousands of rounds through a .357 revolver then one day you start shooting full power magnums and suddenly can't hit anything because the gun behaves differently,is louder and recoils 4 times as much and now you're flinching.

Offline George16

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Re: Can a pistol become conditioned to a recoil spring?
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2019, 09:46:49 PM »
No, a pistol can not become conditioned to a recoil spring. However, a shooter can become conditioned or accustomed to a pistol which has the same recoil spring over a long period of time.

What you’re experiencing is your body (grips, sights, recoil control etc) had been accustomed to the behavior of your gun using the same spring and probably the same ammo over a long period of time. You have learned to anticipate or mitigate the recoil effects better on the old springs because you know exactly how your gun behaved with that particular setup.

A good analogy I can give you is like a race car and race car driver. Modern race cars are setup for a particular driver so when they drive a car other than their own or a different driver drives their car, each won’t be able to drive it as fast as their own cars because they don’t fully know how the car behaves especially in high speed corners. However, after a few practice laps, they’ll get the hang of it and start driving like it’s their own race car.

Offline DWARREN

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Re: Can a pistol become conditioned to a recoil spring?
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2019, 01:49:40 AM »
More than likely the shooter became conditioned to the recoil spring and the way the pistol shot with it.
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Offline M1A4ME

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Re: Can a pistol become conditioned to a recoil spring?
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2019, 06:39:57 AM »
POI?  If the barrel/slide/frame are not back in the same position relative to each other after every shot then POI can be affected.  Will changing the recoil spring do that (change the position of those parts relative to each other?)  Maybe, if the pistol has enough wear on it I can see small changes in where the barrel is when it locks up.

Group size changing?  I don't know.  Going back to consistency of those parts in relation to each other there would have to be some difference from shot to shot.  I would think that a heavier recoil spring would force those parts into the same positions after every shot than a weak recoil spring....but maybe the only way to know would be to shoot it long enough for a new wear in pattern to develop.

Most people will agree (some will argue) that the bullet has left the barrel before the slide starts to move rearwards to unlock the barrel and start the ejection/feeding/chambering cycle.  So a stronger/weaker spring shouldn't be affecting slide/barrel movement when the bullet is still moving down it.
I just keep wasting time and money on other brands trying to find/make one shoot like my P07 and P09.  What is wrong with me?

Offline Joe L

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Re: Can a pistol become conditioned to a recoil spring?
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2019, 08:15:58 AM »
10,000 rounds is nothing as far as wear of the non-spring parts.  My experience is that POI shifts when ammo, springs, grip pressure, sun direction, altitude, etc. changes.  Here is what would happen to me if I went from a seasoned 11 lb to a new 13 lb spring--The POI would drop a little, the recoil changes, so my timing on the shot sequences changes.  I would get rattled after seeing the results and make things worse.  Then it is decision time.  Do I adjust the sights and re-learn and refine my technique with the 13 lb springs or do I go back to the 11? 

Run and gun folks tend to want to run as light a recoil spring as possible in their pistols. Bullseye and precision shooters tend to (or should) run as strong a spring as they can and still get the gun to cycle with whatever ammo they standardize on.  The stronger springs generally help use up as much dwell time as possible and gets the barrel back in to the same lock up position as you had on the first shot, but the guns are more difficult to chamber and aren't as fun to play with or dry fire any more.   :)

I can't handle variations in the shooter (medications, eyesight, attitude, back pain level), much less in the pistol or ammo, so I tend to do a lot of experimentation early on and then never change the gun physically after that and I adapt to it.  When I see a change in POI now, it is me, not the gun.  For example, after missing a few weeks of shooting with the Kadet, I may shoot an inch or two right for the first 25 yard target or two standing single hand.  It is my grip strength.  I tighten up on the grip and the POI shifts left slightly, back to where it should be.  I changed my glasses prescription a few weeks ago and had to make a small adjustment one or two clicks on each of my bullseye guns because the dot shape got clearer and smaller than before.  In the winter, I expect to see a POI change if the ammo isn't kept warm.  Even gloves vs no gloves will change things. 

This is fun.  This is not easy. 

Joe
CZ-75B 9mm and Kadet, 97B"E", two P-09's, P-07, P-10C, P-10F, P-10S, MTR

Offline dbarn

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Re: Can a pistol become conditioned to a recoil spring?
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2019, 09:30:38 AM »
The only other time I've experienced this is when experimenting with recoil buffers. Came to the conclusion I'm better off without but it did affect how groups were printing. If I see something that affects the way I shoot, it immediately makes me think what has changed. What have I done to the pistol, or what am I doing differently. It could very well be me. The spring is CGW's yellow. Shooting mostly Wally World Federals as long as I can get them.

Offline jurek

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Re: Can a pistol become conditioned to a recoil spring?
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2019, 10:10:59 AM »
The only other time I've experienced this is when experimenting with recoil buffers. Came to the conclusion I'm better off without but it did affect how groups were printing. If I see something that affects the way I shoot, it immediately makes me think what has changed. What have I done to the pistol, or what am I doing differently. It could very well be me. The spring is CGW's yellow. Shooting mostly Wally World Federals as long as I can get them.

If you are better without buffer, just don't use it  8)
But seriously, I've been always curious what is benefit of using the buffer... internet research gives 50/50 result, people love buffers, people hate buffers... It's good for one thing, but bad for other... 8)
I don't see any suggestions from CGW to use buffers with their springs on SP-01.

I like Tok36's answer in this thread:  https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=77745.0

Offline George16

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Re: Can a pistol become conditioned to a recoil spring?
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2019, 02:29:46 PM »
The only other time I've experienced this is when experimenting with recoil buffers. Came to the conclusion I'm better off without but it did affect how groups were printing. If I see something that affects the way I shoot, it immediately makes me think what has changed. What have I done to the pistol, or what am I doing differently. It could very well be me. The spring is CGW's yellow. Shooting mostly Wally World Federals as long as I can get them.

Just keep practicing without the buffer. You’ll get used to it in not time and will be shooting as accurate as when you were using the buffer.

I experienced the same thing when I switched between my guns. It takes a few dry and live fire to get the hang of it. Eventually, everything will just fall into place.