Author Topic: Trouble with new Shadow 2 Orange.  (Read 1207 times)

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Offline Rmach

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Trouble with new Shadow 2 Orange.
« on: January 25, 2020, 08:08:34 PM »
I just got back from the range with my new S2 Orange... :( .  I fired 90rds of S&B 115gr, and with each round, I had to bump the slide to get it into full battery. The slide stops about 1/2" short of full battery, and a light finger push takes care of it. The gun was cleaned, oiled and greased prior to firing.

I checked the recoil spring to see if they installed a lighter one by mistake, but the spring is .045 thick and has 33 coils. The other 2 recoil springs that came with the gun are .040 thick and a bit longer. My other standard S2 is .045 thick, 35 coils, and almost the same length as the one on the S2O, so I don't think the wrong recoil spring was installed.

The feed ramp is polished and barrel chamber is smooth. The S&B rounds easily pass the plunk and spin  test.

The ejection distance was only 12"-20". Here's my thinking: the slide to frame fit is a bit too tight. It feels snugger than my other S2's and my other SP-01 orange. That last 1"' of slide travel is tight, and with the round stripping from the mag, it's just enough to stall the slide from completing it's cycle.

A wild shot in the dark would be that the grease I put on the slide is somehow impeding the movement. I say that because the factory armorer who hand fitted this gun probably did the test firing or not, and he/she would have known immediately that the gun was not cycling properly. I had every round fail to go into battery.

I just thought I would share this experience, and just maybe someone would have the answer.  Otherwise, I will call CZ on Monday and ask for the return label. I was overdue for a problem since 10 of my last CZ purchases were trouble free...lol.
CZ Shadow 2 Orange, S2 urban gray, S2 black and blue, 3 polished stainless 75b's and a black 75b all with MCARBO kits and front Dawson FO.

Offline eastman

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Re: Trouble with new Shadow 2 Orange.
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2020, 08:20:22 PM »
How much clearance is there between slide and frame? When I was fitting a TSO 9mm upper to a TS frame, it started with 0.000" clearance. Took a good bit of work before it would cycle a snap cap.

Try oil/CLP instead of grease and use some 9mm NATO loaded ammo. See if that loosens it up.
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Offline Rmach

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Re: Trouble with new Shadow 2 Orange.
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2020, 08:32:20 PM »
How much clearance is there between slide and frame? When I was fitting a TSO 9mm upper to a TS frame, it started with 0.000" clearance. Took a good bit of work before it would cycle a snap cap.

Try oil/CLP instead of grease and use some 9mm NATO loaded ammo. See if that loosens it up.

The horizontal and vertical play is almost zero, just a tiny bit (.001-.002) of vertical play.  It's tighter than my other two S2's, and I can see that with the wear pattern on the slide rails.

I was planning to go back to the range and run some different ammo, just oil on rails and use my other recoil spring from the other Shadow 2 and a couple of different mags..
« Last Edit: January 25, 2020, 08:41:04 PM by Rmach »
CZ Shadow 2 Orange, S2 urban gray, S2 black and blue, 3 polished stainless 75b's and a black 75b all with MCARBO kits and front Dawson FO.

Offline Mercs

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Trouble with new Shadow 2 Orange.
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2020, 08:37:52 PM »
You should make sure all the internals, slide and frame look ok before continuing to fire that. I can’t imagine having to troubleshoot a brand new $2,000 gun that won’t go into battery. Sorry


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Offline Rmach

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Re: Trouble with new Shadow 2 Orange.
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2020, 08:42:23 PM »
You should make sure all the internals, slide and frame look ok before continuing to fire that. I can’t imagine having to troubleshoot a brand new $2,000 gun that won’t go into battery. Sorry


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Absolutely, internals look fine.
CZ Shadow 2 Orange, S2 urban gray, S2 black and blue, 3 polished stainless 75b's and a black 75b all with MCARBO kits and front Dawson FO.

Offline Rmach

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Re: Trouble with new Shadow 2 Orange.
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2020, 11:34:39 PM »
I removed the rail grease that I applied before the range visit, re-oiled the rails with Hoppes Elite and installed the recoil spring from my other Shadow 2.  It feels like a different gun with a much smoother slide action. The factory rails did have some brown gook in there which I didn't notice before when I added the grease.

Fingers crossed. but I think/hope the problem might be over.  I'm back to the range tomorrow with Fiocchi, Magtech and S&B ammo, along with a new/old mag.  I'll update tomorrow. Here's a pic of some of that brown gook that was in the rails.




« Last Edit: January 25, 2020, 11:42:12 PM by Rmach »
CZ Shadow 2 Orange, S2 urban gray, S2 black and blue, 3 polished stainless 75b's and a black 75b all with MCARBO kits and front Dawson FO.

Offline 2morechains

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Re: Trouble with new Shadow 2 Orange.
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2020, 12:46:50 AM »
What was the temp when you were shooting it?  I don’t use grease unless it’s warm out.  FP10 for winter, Enos Slideglide grease only in the summer.

Offline Earl Keese

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Re: Trouble with new Shadow 2 Orange.
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2020, 08:29:32 AM »
Mercs - Some break in comes with the territory when you have a new tightly fitted gun, even one considerably more expensive than the S2 Orange.
Rmach - I think the switch to oil will likely make a difference, especially if it's cold out. Maybe you could try some hotter NATO spec ammo until it wears in a little. Another option would be to hand lap the slide to the frame. I bet it wouldn't take much at all. Congrats on picking up a beautiful new pistol.

Offline Rmach

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Re: Trouble with new Shadow 2 Orange.
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2020, 09:49:25 AM »
Thanks for the replies!!  It was a heated indoor range.  I don't have any NATO ammo, the strongest I have is S&B, Speer Lawman, Fiocchi then Magtech, American Eagle, Blazer Brass, CCI.

The more I think about it, that brown stuff that was mixed with the EWG grease was possibly a rust film or a storage grease/cosmoline. I didn't see that at all when I applied the grease, but it must have been there since the EWG grease does not have that color. I haven't seen that brown color from any of my other CZ's.  I'm going to go over the rails one more time and cycle the slide another 100 times or so before I head back to the range today. I'll update when I get back.
CZ Shadow 2 Orange, S2 urban gray, S2 black and blue, 3 polished stainless 75b's and a black 75b all with MCARBO kits and front Dawson FO.

Offline Mercs

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Re: Trouble with new Shadow 2 Orange.
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2020, 10:19:20 AM »
Mercs - Some break in comes with the territory when you have a new tightly fitted gun, even one considerably more expensive than the S2 Orange.
Rmach - I think the switch to oil will likely make a difference, especially if it's cold out. Maybe you could try some hotter NATO spec ammo until it wears in a little. Another option would be to hand lap the slide to the frame. I bet it wouldn't take much at all. Congrats on picking up a beautiful new pistol.
I agree “some break in” is normal on a super tight gun, but a gun that won’t close fully into battery on every shot just sounds off to me.  That is absolutely NOT normal break-in for a “hand-fitted” pistol, and I would be checking everything carefully as I suggested before firing more


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Offline Rmach

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Re: Trouble with new Shadow 2 Orange.
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2020, 10:40:57 AM »
Mercs - Some break in comes with the territory when you have a new tightly fitted gun, even one considerably more expensive than the S2 Orange.
Rmach - I think the switch to oil will likely make a difference, especially if it's cold out. Maybe you could try some hotter NATO spec ammo until it wears in a little. Another option would be to hand lap the slide to the frame. I bet it wouldn't take much at all. Congrats on picking up a beautiful new pistol.
I agree “some break in” is normal on a super tight gun, but a gun that won’t close fully into battery on every shot just sounds off to me.  That is absolutely NOT normal break-in for a “hand-fitted” pistol, and I would be checking everything carefully as I suggested before firing more


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Yes, I had to nudge the slide about a 1/2" on the last 80 rounds.  The first 10rds, I had to push the slide about 1".  The slide fully cycles every time without ammo. What I have done so far has made a difference in the way it feels, and I agree with Earl that it's very very close to operating correctly. The nudge I gave the slide for each round yesterday was light, tip of one finger light.
CZ Shadow 2 Orange, S2 urban gray, S2 black and blue, 3 polished stainless 75b's and a black 75b all with MCARBO kits and front Dawson FO.

Offline Mercs

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Re: Trouble with new Shadow 2 Orange.
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2020, 12:35:19 PM »
Mercs - Some break in comes with the territory when you have a new tightly fitted gun, even one considerably more expensive than the S2 Orange.
Rmach - I think the switch to oil will likely make a difference, especially if it's cold out. Maybe you could try some hotter NATO spec ammo until it wears in a little. Another option would be to hand lap the slide to the frame. I bet it wouldn't take much at all. Congrats on picking up a beautiful new pistol.
I agree “some break in” is normal on a super tight gun, but a gun that won’t close fully into battery on every shot just sounds off to me.  That is absolutely NOT normal break-in for a “hand-fitted” pistol, and I would be checking everything carefully as I suggested before firing more


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Yes, I had to nudge the slide about a 1/2" on the last 80 rounds.  The first 10rds, I had to push the slide about 1".  The slide fully cycles every time without ammo. What I have done so far has made a difference in the way it feels, and I agree with Earl that it's very very close to operating correctly. The nudge I gave the slide for each round yesterday was light, tip of one finger light.
It certainly may have just been the grease and factory gunk holding it up, with such little clearance involved. Good call on using oil for the rails. Hopefully it runs next time


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Offline falar

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Re: Trouble with new Shadow 2 Orange.
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2020, 02:10:54 PM »
Hmm, strange.  I grease the hell out of my rails with TW-25B to the point of it constantly working its way out the back and none of my CZs including Shadow 2s, 1s, Orange, etc ever had any issues on the first range trip.

Offline Rmach

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Re: Trouble with new Shadow 2 Orange.
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2020, 05:00:06 PM »
I just got back from the range, and I'm very pleased with today's results  :D  :).  I started with 50rds of 124gr Speer Lawman with zero issues, then I loaded the 10rds of S&B I had left from one box yesterday (same ammo I had problems with), and the 2nd round stopped short of battery by 1"8", the remaining 8rds fired perfectly. Then I fired 50rds of Fiocchi, 50 Magtech and finished with 50rds of the same S&B from yesterday. All the ammo (210rds, 4 brands), except that one S&B round cycled perfectly.

I feel much better that I don't have to send it in.  The fitment on this Orange can't get any better IMO, and I have a hunch CZ would have played it safe and maybe taken off too much material if I sent it in under warranty. Thanks again for all the replies. I plan on going back to the range soon and get 1000rds through this bad boy. Here's one of my better targets (for me) from today at 15yds:

CZ Shadow 2 Orange, S2 urban gray, S2 black and blue, 3 polished stainless 75b's and a black 75b all with MCARBO kits and front Dawson FO.

Offline Rmach

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Re: Trouble with new Shadow 2 Orange.
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2020, 05:05:00 PM »
Hmm, strange.  I grease the hell out of my rails with TW-25B to the point of it constantly working its way out the back and none of my CZs including Shadow 2s, 1s, Orange, etc ever had any issues on the first range trip.

I hear you, my experience with 10CZ's has been the same as yours except for this one. The fitment was just too perfect/snug on this one to use grease on the first range trip, plus I did not clean out the rails thoroughly before I added the grease.
CZ Shadow 2 Orange, S2 urban gray, S2 black and blue, 3 polished stainless 75b's and a black 75b all with MCARBO kits and front Dawson FO.

 

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