My P-01 and the CGW blue 13# hammer spring

[Boris_LA]

80% of trigger improvements comes from the hammer and sear replacement. Different hooks geometry eliminate the cam action and shorten the trigger travel and creep. In your upgrade, you have stayed with the original hammer, so the longer travel with creep will stay until gun is well broken in. Dry fire with o-ring a lot and shoot it live too. Soon you will notice that pull will be much smoother, but stay in the safe, comfortable zone. Not too light.
Replacing OEM 18lb(?) main spring with 13LB blue spring will reduce double action pull maybe 10-20% only.
The upgrade you had done should not be a problem for any gunsmith even the amateur. If they hesitate, I would walk away.
Here is very useful link for for CZ disassembly, so you can get an idea whats inside.
https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/191773-cz-tuning-101-with-professor-atlas/

[Casinostocks]

Thank you Boris_LA. I intend to getting into learning to work on my own guns so I appreciate the link with the step-by-step tutorials. I think that I will go ahead and invest in my own trigger resistance (pull) measuring gauge. Ultimately, the intention in here is to learn and bounce ideas. I hope that I am not coming across as someone who makes these trivial issues sound like life impacting problems! I feel fortunate to be able to participate in this phase of the learning curve, to get to know my CZ better

[Chuck James]

There's alot of good info to be read here. 

https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=42537.0

[Casinostocks]

^^^ great info link again, thank you Sir

[rkwhyte2]

OP you are getting a Rami and I hope you enjoy it they are great little guns. Having said that I will tell you that I have owned a P-01, PCR, and a Rami. The only one I still have is the P-01. My Rami had a CGW Pro Package installed by a gentleman we call the Wizard. He is...well a wizard with a CZ. The pistol was beyond good but in the end the P-01(also with a CGW Pro Package)did everything I needed.

[Casinostocks]

rkwhyte2: thank you again for expressing your experiences with these models which seem to have a kinship for.

I did actually consider a PCR as more of a "wear & tear" handgun in 9mm (with apologies to some Glock fans maybe in here, the Gs are not my cuppa). I wanted to keep the W&T gun as close to stock as possible, well, because I am frugal. Then after installing these bits and pieces from CGW on my P-01, I just came to the conclusion that I would not be able to stick to my own guidelines! I really did not like the OE triggers in P-01 & PCR which are the same thing.

The RAMI felt different but who knows, maybe I'm just fooling myself which will not be the first or the last. I will see how it goes with this P-01 as it already is after I put 500 or so rounds through it. I may very well send it out to CGW then to go with a full pro package. I am not one to ever sell my guns but I also don't want to be without any CZs by my side either. So having the RAMI with me will probably hold me over while my P-01 goes to LA for some Cajunizing.

[Casinostocks]

I'm with you, at least as it pertains to the 13# hammer spring.  I just installed CGW's 3-spring kit in both my P01 and P06.  I can't really feel the difference either, certainly not a 50% reduction in DA pull.  I'll be interested to see how your next spring feels.

I did get another 13# blue from CGW and replaced it with the first 13# blue spring and there is no difference at all in the action between the 2 blues (not that IO did really expect something discernibly different!). Like others have already said, the other trick to getting totally buttery smooth is by doing other types of wizardry (hammr, sear, very good internal polishing...).

Interestingly I just picked up my RAMI and with all the OE components so far, it is doing the exact same thing but obviously the P-01 with the existing CGW parts requires less trigger pull force than the RAMI with all OE. I will also change over the same components for the RAMI despite having sworn not to before 

So here is how it goes for the trigger snobs and perfectionists:

In SA as the trigger is being pulled as certain amount of uptake or slack is notice which is normal till the action hits the wall where the shooter feels that the sear's engaged. Then comes the creep toward the break and if you keep pulling the trigger ever so gently, you will feel that very short travel of the trigger toward you that the creep feels a bit gritty before the gun goes BANG!

Most of the above will feel like a smooth action when firing live rounds at the range or I would imagine when adrenalin rush in the system under duress. Oh the luxury of snap cap dry firing and these 1st-world problems

[dbarn]

For those who have the pro package and the RRK with the competition hammer, I've found that going back to the factory disconnector has allowed me to use the 11.5 hammer spring with no light strikes in my decocker models in DA mode. You will give up your reach reduction and you'll need to remove the pre-travel screw in the old style 85 hammer, but this will yield a very smooth predictable DA trigger pull.

With the RRK and corresponding "thick" disconnector you will notice that in DA mode, the hammer does not come back has far as SA mode. So you get light strikes in DA but not the SA mode. The 13 lb hammer spring overcomes the shorter stroke and allows reliable ignition of most primers. With the thin factory disconnector, the hammer comes back to the same distance as the SA mode and will allow you to use the 11.5 hammer spring.

Another possible issue in going back to the factory disconnector is having the trigger move forward past reset position. However I've not found this to be an issue and do not ride the reset. I simply listen for the "click". I've been much happier with the smoother DA trigger pull the 11.5 hammer spring affords. Due to hand size and trigger reach of those who need the RRK, this will not be an option. YMMV

[DJK11]

With my 97b the blue hammer spring would kink when the is hammer fully cocked.  And yes I did comparisons with parts from my 75b, they are the same.  So to eliminate the kink I cut two coils from the blue spring.  Smoother pull and no light strikes after more than 600 rounds.  Did the same to the 75b and P-01.  All is good.

[Casinostocks]

For those who have the pro package and the RRK with the competition hammer, I've found that going back to the factory disconnector has allowed me to use the 11.5 hammer spring with no light strikes in my decocker models in DA mode. You will give up your reach reduction and you'll need to remove the pre-travel screw in the old style 85 hammer, but this will yield a very smooth predictable DA trigger pull.

With the RRK and corresponding "thick" disconnector you will notice that in DA mode, the hammer does not come back has far as SA mode. So you get light strikes in DA but not the SA mode. The 13 lb hammer spring overcomes the shorter stroke and allows reliable ignition of most primers. With the thin factory disconnector, the hammer comes back to the same distance as the SA mode and will allow you to use the 11.5 hammer spring.

Another possible issue in going back to the factory disconnector is having the trigger move forward past reset position. However I've not found this to be an issue and do not ride the reset. I simply listen for the "click". I've been much happier with the smoother DA trigger pull the 11.5 hammer spring affords. Due to hand size and trigger reach of those who need the RRK, this will not be an option. YMMV

Thank you for this post. I was tinkering with more Cajun'izing my P-01 via changing hammer and the disconnector but I think that I will just leave things as they are. I am not a super-duper range/drill shooter but a bit more than your occasional type who merely practices a few times a year. My weapons are purely for defense and protection if SHTF so reliability is of the utmost imperative as opposed to the other stuff which I've been playing around with. I can live with the grittiness of the SA trigger creep stage as opposed to screwing around with the finer stuff which is really above my pay grade. At the time of writing this (Covid-19 panic) I do not want to mess around with sending out for smithing either same as totally taking things apart which will get me totally stuck when trying to put them all back

[Casinostocks]

With my 97b the blue hammer spring would kink when the is hammer fully cocked.  And yes I did comparisons with parts from my 75b, they are the same.  So to eliminate the kink I cut two coils from the blue spring.  Smoother pull and no light strikes after more than 600 rounds.  Did the same to the 75b and P-01.  All is good.

When I replaced the existing CGW blue 13# with the other 13# which the gunsmith had installed for me, I did notice the bulging under full compression when the lanyard bit was being fully compressed in order to fit the magazine retaining plate. Putting in the curly bottom piece was a real PITA as it was just hitting the coils and yikes, I didn't like that at all! I ended up folding that curly end-piece and then neatly tucking it inside the bottom-end grove instead. I read about the logic of the way CZ does it at the factory with the idea that these compact 75s being a military sidearm and therefore not dropping the magz on the ground at the expense of losing it but that notion was not an issue for me. This way, now may magz just eject like my other handguns; the RAMI does not even have that retaining plate!

[tdogg]

Casino,

Without a gauge, I don't think you can really judge the weight and weight isn't everything in this case.  That said you should be able to detect a 50% drop.

I haven't looked at this in a while but I documented my quest to turn my SP01 into a competition rig (still have and love it).  In this thread you can see the changes in trigger pull weights by spring type.  Moving to the 13lb spring was about a 30% reduction and the 11.5lb spring was about a 45% reduction.  The polishing really does improve the feel of the DA but it doesn't show on the trigger pull gauge.  As mentioned, I'd polish the internals or at minimum run a couple thousand rounds through it.

One overlooked item that can affect the DA feel is the main spring strut.  If the corners aren't smooth the spring can bind during compression impact the DA feel.  At minimum make sure the main spring strut is oiled.

https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=48834.0

Cheers,
Toby

[Casinostocks]

Casino,

Without a gauge, I don't think you can really judge the weight and weight isn't everything in this case.  That said you should be able to detect a 50% drop.

I haven't looked at this in a while but I documented my quest to turn my SP01 into a competition rig (still have and love it).  In this thread you can see the changes in trigger pull weights by spring type.  Moving to the 13lb spring was about a 30% reduction and the 11.5lb spring was about a 45% reduction.  The polishing really does improve the feel of the DA but it doesn't show on the trigger pull gauge.  As mentioned, I'd polish the internals or at minimum run a couple thousand rounds through it.

One overlooked item that can affect the DA feel is the main spring strut.  If the corners aren't smooth the spring can bind during compression impact the DA feel.  At minimum make sure the main spring strut is oiled.

https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=48834.0

Cheers,
Toby

Thanks for the tips on the strut Tony.

I had actually ordered the Lyman digital gauge form Amz which I sent back because after messing with it, there were some aspects of it which I did not like so I went ahead and ordered the Wheeler digital one which I like better (both have pros and cons for those who have tried both).

In a rudimentary round of measurements, the DA as it is currently set up, has gotten me on average 8.5# of pull resistance +or- a few ounces. I can pin point the averages more accurately once I do the measurement process using my vices instead of holding the gun in my hand. A word to the wise, I am the last person in here with any sage words! I am still a noob and have a lot to learn both in terms of abilities and also empirically speaking. But I am both loud and also willing to learn by trials and errors

Cheers, Mat...

[Casinostocks]

It has been a while since I have posted in here but since I was not entirely happy with the sloppiness and the grittiness in the trigger action even after having some CGW parts installed by a gunsmith (as I had explained in my earlier posts) I went ahead and bit the bullet (I know bad analogy but that's the best I've got this late in the eve!) but adding the Race Hammer from CGW and taken the P-01 to HoneyBadger Guns here in San Diego who I have since found out to be recommended by CGW to do CGW parts installations here in San Diego county. I also opted for the polishing of the internal parts and also to have the previous work re-checked.

I just picked up these two today and even though I have not live fired either one since, I can tell that even in dry firing the experience is now as the cliche goes not only, like night & day, but also like a day and a night from different decades!!! Buttery smooth and none of slop or grit, NONE! I am extremely happy now with the end result despite having easily spent well over the original price of the P-01 and then some (same with the RAMI) on both parts and labor.

[mkd]

read the whole thread! i used cgw parts and polished the actions of both my p-01 and sp-01. the grit went away in my p-01 when i did the install and i really like the ring hammer over the stock one. for dry fire i tried orings however if any oil or lube gets on them they do not stay in place very welol. a cheaper and better alternative is vacumn tubing used in the auto industry. i cut them to the thickness i want with a sharp razor blade. the tubing stays in place better because it has more contact area on both sides of the slide. I bought the size that needs slight compression and is oval when inserted in place. the tubing is black and can be hard to see in place, after reading a thread here the other day about someone who inadvertantly conceal carried with the oring in place i thought about looking for the bright yellow fuel line used in outdoor power equipment as an alternative.