P-09 barrel, clean enough?

[Joe L]

So, I'm bored.  I pulled out my P-09, took out the barrel, ran a brush with some Kroil on it, then a few patches.  The 3rd dry patch was white, so I chucked the barrel in a vise, and set the camera up for some full length shots and here is what I got...



I could scrub and scrub on this barrel to get it shiny but I don't think it is necessary.  What do you think? 

(Full disclosure--the photo is a 30 shot stack and the contrast is increased to emphasize the carbon in the barrel.  It looks clean to the eye.  It is a nail driver, dirty.)

Joe

[jurek]

It's not dirty from current shots, but it's burned out. I'm not sure if you can do anything with this right now... and I'd wouldn't bother.
Just curious - how many rounds went through it already?

[Joe L]

I made another attempt at cleaning it, not much of a change.  Again, the photo processing emphasizes the dark areas so the barrel doesn't look very bad to me. 
I quit counting rounds a few years ago when I got a 97B"E", but this one only has maybe 15k rounds through it. 



I think the last time I shot it, it was still well under 2" at 50 yards from a rest with a red dot.  I don't remember the 100 yard group size, but it is usually close to 4" if I'm having a good day.  I didn't think it was possible to shoot out a low load 9mm barrel. 

Joe

[jurek]

I made another attempt at cleaning it, not much of a change.  Again, the photo processing emphasizes the dark areas so the barrel doesn't look very bad to me. 
I quit counting rounds a few years ago when I got a 97B"E", but this one only has maybe 15k rounds through it. 
I think the last time I shot it, it was still well under 2" at 50 yards from a rest with a red dot.  I don't remember the 100 yard group size, but it is usually close to 4" if I'm having a good day.  I didn't think it was possible to shoot out a low load 9mm barrel. 
Joe

hmm interesting. 15K? 
I've checked mine (P-01). It has around 11K now. Do not see any burned out spots, just single dots... I'm using regular branded ammo 115gr, 124gr.. Barrel cleaned after each shooting using "One Shot Cleaner".
What ammo are you using and what cleaning solvent?

[Vinny]

I've heard some folks leave their barrels to soak submerged in Hoppe's #9 for a day B4 cleaning with brush, then patch(s). I haven't tried it but wondering if I should do this periodically?

[CCWLearner]

I've heard some folks leave their barrels to soak submerged in Hoppe's #9 for a day B4 cleaning with brush, then patch(s). I haven't tried it but wondering if I should do this periodically?

I have done this quite a bit in the past, and it seems to work alright.  I have a tall narrow cylindrical glass jar with a plastic lid, actually one that prepared horseradish came in, that I cleaned out and partially filled with Hoppes #9 bore solvent, which I bought a quart of for under 10$.  After a trip to the range, I would first wipe my P-07 and Sig P290 barrels down with dry cloth to get the loose fouling off, then submerge both of them at once in the jar for several hours, sometimes overnight.

It definitely helps to melt the baked-on carbon and makes it easy to wipe off with minimal scrubbing.  Not exactly sure how well it works on the lead and copper fouling but probably okay.  I would re-use the same jar of solvent several times... you can see that it gets darker with use, probably has a fair amount of toxic lead dissolved in it, maybe less chemically effective over time... eventually needs to be poured out and replaced.

I have stopped using this method more recently.  I started treating my barrels with Eezox, which makes the carbon easier to wipe off in the first place.  Then, for a deep cleaning and copper / lead removal, I wet patches with a combination of Hoppes #9 solvent and Kroil, wipe the barrel several times with that, then let it sit for hours as needed.  This uses a lot less solvent, and you get to see on your patches when you wipe out the solvent, if they are still turning blue / green, to know whether you need to soak them again to get more copper out.  Once they're clean, I degrease them with acetone and re-treat them with Eezox.  I also use this same method on my rifle barrels.

[Joe L]

Thanks for the suggestions.  I may try soaking the barrel and then cleaning it again.  I really think it is just carbon, but I could be wrong.  Again, the photograph greatly exaggerates the density of the rough spots in the barrel.  The light source is at the end of the barrel, so some of what we see in the photo is shadow.  Plus, with the photo stacking technique needed to get everything in focus over the length of the barrel, there is some chance for overlap, resulting in further exaggeration.   I took this photo several times before I got the lint from the cleaning patches out.  The tiny threads were tack sharp, however, and very distracting. 

This is the barrel that was in the gun when I made all the 100-200 yard P-09 videos shown in my YouTube channel  JoeMustang99.   I haven't shot it much since getting the 97B"E" and the P-10 pistols.  The P-10F barrel is just as good at the range, and looks to be manufactured using exactly the same techniques.  I sure hope so.  The P-10S 3.5" barrel is the one I should be studying, however.  The P-10S has taken over 1st place in my favorites list after getting the results I got at 200 yards.  Unbelievable.  Modern manufacturing techniques are phenomenal. 

I also have a regular Lyman borescope that I can use to get a right angle view, greatly magnified.  Last time I checked the bore, that stuff looked like carbon, not surface damage.  But I'll look again.  If I can get a good shot of the P-10S barrel for comparison, I'll do that, too.  It has maybe 2k rounds through it. 

Joe

[Vinny]

If I look carefully after a very thorough bore cleaning; although the flats are spotless the grooves still seem to have a little bit of roughness and crud especially in the lower corners of groove.

It would be interesting to have a similar image of a brand new barrel as a comparative starting point. Although the flats and corners would look sharp and polished I suspect that even a new barrel will look a bit rough in the grooves from the manufacturing process but with zero crud buildup?

However, I'm not sure if a small amount of roughness/crud in the grooves has any material effect on bullet trajectory or speed. The idea of the twist is to get the bullet spinning which helps stabilize it's trajectory.

Joe, If anyone could tell us I would think it would be you.   

[M1A4ME]

Are the dark spots pits with crud built up in them?  Looks almost like an old M1917 barrel I've got (not nearly as bad, but the same look to it.)

Not sure what would pit a P09 barrel.  They are supposed to be pretty hard.

Did you (very closely) look at the barrel when it was new to make sure it wasn't like this new? 

I've always been impressed by how quickly my P07 and P09 barrels clean up vs. the CZ75/P01 barrels.  Even with lead bullets the P07 shines up nicely after a brushing with Hoppes #9 followed by a few patches.

[Joe L]

Joe, If anyone could tell us I would think it would be you.   

Thanks, Vinny, but I am a self-proclaimed expert in SHOOTING the pistol, and also have expertise in avoiding cleaning anything more than firing pin holes, chambers, and breech faces!   

"Not going to clean it, might ruin it." is usually all I can conclude as I drive home from the range after a good long distance (100-200 yards) result. 

Joe

[Vinny]

I recall some of the old-timers telling me they cleaned their rifle bores by shooting more bullets thru them. 

[Joe L]

So, here is the 3.5" P-10S barrel, before doing any cleaning at all.  Photo stacking and photo processing similar to the P-09 barrel photos.  Next I will clean this one, kinda, and reshoot it.



Joe

[Joe L]

Well, that didn't take long.  I started with Kroil and a brush, then Hoppe's and brush, then a few dry patches.  Here is the P-10S barrel after cleaning.  I hope I didn't ruin it!   



The Hoppe's was much more effective in removing what I think is carbon than the Kroil is.  I think all I have to do on the P-09 barrel is clean it again with the Hoppe's.  The P-10S barrel looks fine to me. 

Joe

[Earl Keese]

Yup, that P10S barrel is burned out too.     

[lewmed]

 Some JB bore paste will clean that barrel and keep deposits from building up.