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Author Topic: P-09 barrel, clean enough?  (Read 29882 times)

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Offline Joe L

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Re: P-09 barrel, clean enough?
« Reply #30 on: April 10, 2020, 10:39:59 AM »
Jurek--I would show you my 75B Kadet host frame but I think it would make you sick.   :) :)

I did find a photo of one 3-1/2" 5 shot group at 100 yards with the P-09 barrel shown above.  I did a video of it, so I know the sequence of the shots. 

I may not have cleaned it since I shot this group.  Just kidding!!



Joe

 
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CZ-75B 9mm and Kadet, 97B"E", two P-09's, P-07, P-10C, P-10F, P-10S, MTR

Offline jurek

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Re: P-09 barrel, clean enough?
« Reply #31 on: April 10, 2020, 11:07:06 AM »
Quote from: Joe L on April 10, 2020, 10:39:59 AM
Jurek--I would show you my 75B Kadet host frame but I think it would make you sick.   :) :)
I did find a photo of one 3-1/2" 5 shot group at 100 yards with the P-09 barrel shown above.  I did a video of it, so I know the sequence of the shots. 
I may not have cleaned it since I shot this group.  Just kidding!!
Joe

P-09 at 100 yards.. pretty impressive... I wish I could do this at 100 feet  :P
I'm not a fan of shiny clear barrel,  firearm is a tool, so it has to be dirty sometimes.

But you may be right not showing crazy dirty handgun  ;D



Hopefully you don't keep something like this for few months  ;D :D ;)

BTW: This is probably the dirtiest handgun posted on Internet. Photo by D&D Gunsmiths, Michigan
« Last Edit: April 12, 2020, 07:14:59 AM by Wobbly »
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Offline Joe L

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Re: P-09 barrel, clean enough?
« Reply #32 on: April 10, 2020, 12:34:49 PM »
Jurek...I warned you! 

This is my 75B frame that I use as a Kadet host.  Because it is a .22, it gets filthy very quickly.  I tend to add oil and continue on.  Gun has over 50k rounds 90% with the Kadet mounted.  Pretty sure I took this photo right after winning a local bullseye match.  I probably cleaned it (full disassembly) the following spring.  If it was an odd numbered year.



Joe
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CZ-75B 9mm and Kadet, 97B"E", two P-09's, P-07, P-10C, P-10F, P-10S, MTR

Offline jurek

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Re: P-09 barrel, clean enough?
« Reply #33 on: April 10, 2020, 03:58:11 PM »
Quote from: Joe L on April 10, 2020, 12:34:49 PM
Jurek...I warned you! 
This is my 75B frame that I use as a Kadet host.  Because it is a .22, it gets filthy very quickly.  I tend to add oil and continue on.  Gun has over 50k rounds 90% with the Kadet mounted.  Pretty sure I took this photo right after winning a local bullseye match.  I probably cleaned it (full disassembly) the following spring.  If it was an odd numbered year.
Joe

 ;D ;D ;D ;D
OK, Joe.. I'm not gonna puke  ;)
Dirty gun means  gun is in use...  As long as you clean it, that's what has to be done ...
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Offline Joe L

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Re: P-09 barrel, clean enough?
« Reply #34 on: April 10, 2020, 05:46:46 PM »
I've still got some barrel cleaning to do.  Here is a photo of the bore near the muzzle.  Now there are some artifacts in this photo from the stacking procedure--this is 36 flash photos combined in to one--so don't make too big a deal out of it.  For example, the end of the barrel does not appear to be this rough in normal light.  But the photo clearly shows some lead that I suppose needs to be removed.  The pits are so small they are no more significant than the original machining marks. 

So, I'm not done yet.  Gun should shoot pretty good if I am successful.  Wait a minute!  It wasn't too bad filthy!  I've included two single frame shots heavily cropped to show you what the barrel really looks like. 

 



Joe
« Last Edit: April 10, 2020, 06:26:34 PM by Joe L »
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CZ-75B 9mm and Kadet, 97B"E", two P-09's, P-07, P-10C, P-10F, P-10S, MTR

Offline M1A4ME

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Re: P-09 barrel, clean enough?
« Reply #35 on: April 10, 2020, 06:56:42 PM »
I had a buddy in college that bought a nice High Standard target pistol.  He only shot Eley match .22 ammo in it.

He could get a box (50 rounds even back in the early 80's, hah hah!) through it no problem.  After that first 50 rounds he'd get a few more and then it would start failing to go into battery.  He'd stop shooting, unload it, pull the slide off, brush/wipe it out, lube it up, put it back together and get another 50 rounds and a few more through it before having to repeat the cleaning/lubing thing.  I guess that thing was pretty tightly fitted together.

My Ruger Mk1 5.5" bull barrel would run all afternoon, box after box, without having to be cleaned/lubed.

Guns are funny things, some times.
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I just keep wasting time and money on other brands trying to find/make one shoot like my P07 and P09.  What is wrong with me?

Offline CCWLearner

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Re: P-09 barrel, clean enough?
« Reply #36 on: April 10, 2020, 10:50:52 PM »
I carried my Ruger 10/22 to an outdoor range with my son last year, where we plinked steel targets in a shooting gallery to the tune of around 300 rounds in an hour, using mostly Remington Thunderbolt Lead Round Nose in a bulk box.  It was fairly clean already... maybe not pristine, but pretty clean.

I never had too much of an issue with these rounds excessively fouling in this rifle before, at least by 22 LR standards, but this time when I got the rifle home and tried to run my carbon fiber cleaning rod through, from the muzzle, with a slotted tip and patch cloth, it ran into something hard and wouldn't budge.  So I removed the tip and just tried to run the rod through with nothing, and it still couldn't make it through.  The barrel was partially obstructed near the chamber.  I tried an Otis cable from the breech and couldn't get that through either.

I fiddled around with this thing... sticking qtips soaked in Kroil and Hoppes #9 into the chamber, trying to loosen it up.  Finally I managed to get a bronze brush inserted threads-first into the chamber and past the obstruction, by tapping it in with a hammer, then screwed my rod onto it from the muzzle, and managed to pull it through... a decent sized chunk of lead came out, shiny and rounded in the shape of the barrel on the outer surface.  I guess it started fouling, and then every lead round was laying down additional layers as it squeezed past the fouling.

I considered us lucky that we didn't blow the gun up with an obstructed barrel that day, and I completely avoid cheap lead round nose .22LR now... I try to stick with the copper CCI Mini Mags now.
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Offline M1A4ME

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Re: P-09 barrel, clean enough?
« Reply #37 on: April 11, 2020, 02:08:09 PM »
Don't think plated .22 rimfire ammo won't lead a barrel.

Worst leaded up barrel I ever fought to get clean was messed up with Federal plated .22.  Ruined multiple brushes, had a small mountain of dirty patches near the end and finally got it clean by making patches out of the Birchwood Casey lead removal cloth and running them through the barrel over and over.  Used up almost the whole pack on that one barrel.
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I just keep wasting time and money on other brands trying to find/make one shoot like my P07 and P09.  What is wrong with me?

Offline CCWLearner

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Re: P-09 barrel, clean enough?
« Reply #38 on: April 11, 2020, 02:39:12 PM »
Right, it can still happen, especially since most copper .22LR isn't actually plated or jacketed, but only washed with a very thin layer of copper.  After the problem I had last year, I went around reading what I could about it on places like the Rimfire Central forums.  The consensus seems to be that lead round nose works better for high end target guns with custom-lapped barrels, but would contribute more to fouling in rougher factory barrels.

I think I have my .22 barrel in pretty good shape at this point.  It has cleaned up easily after my last couple of range trips.  I'm using Shooter's Choice Lead Remover, Kroil, and Hoppes #9 on it with VFG pellets.  If I have problems with it again I'm going to polish it with some J-B paste I bought for that purpose.
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Offline Joe L

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Re: P-09 barrel, clean enough?
« Reply #39 on: April 11, 2020, 04:53:45 PM »
Finally found my ChoreBoy pads, Hoppe's #9, etc.  One more attempt to get the remaining lead out.  Also have a new borescope (cheap) coming.  This will be the 3rd one I've tried.  Might have some results on Sunday, not sure yet.  Barrel really is good to go now.  But I have time.
Joe
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CZ-75B 9mm and Kadet, 97B"E", two P-09's, P-07, P-10C, P-10F, P-10S, MTR

Offline Vinny

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Re: P-09 barrel, clean enough?
« Reply #40 on: April 11, 2020, 05:30:06 PM »
Quote from: M1A4ME on April 11, 2020, 02:08:09 PM
Don't think plated .22 rimfire ammo won't lead a barrel.

Worst leaded up barrel I ever fought to get clean was messed up with Federal plated .22.  Ruined multiple brushes, had a small mountain of dirty patches near the end and finally got it clean by making patches out of the Birchwood Casey lead removal cloth and running them through the barrel over and over.  Used up almost the whole pack on that one barrel.

Haven't shot my 22's much the past two years as 9mm has been so accessible. But the price of ammo has already almost doubled in the past month so I guess it's time to bring out the 22's again.
I guess the moral of these stories is that cheap ammo ain't so cheap.  ::)

I finally burned up the rest of my Remington Thunderbolts (purchased during the last ammo crunch) in a forgiving Ruger SR22. The shrapnel off those things is nasty! Just cleaned the pistol up thoroughly and sold it through my LGS.
Still have some Aguila copper 'plated' HV round nose I'll run through my SW22 Victory. Fortunately I had restocked my CCI Mini-Mag stash exclusively for the Ruger Mk IV.
Now....cleaning, re-springing, and waiting patiently for the ranges to open again.
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Offline jurek

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Re: P-09 barrel, clean enough?
« Reply #41 on: April 11, 2020, 05:51:29 PM »
Few more days and Joe will show us perfectly clean barrel  ;D


hmmm.. I'm not even sure if such perfection comes out of the box.  O0
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Offline Joe L

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Re: P-09 barrel, clean enough?
« Reply #42 on: April 11, 2020, 06:01:37 PM »
Those grooves are kinda narrow but it sure is pretty!  Won't see anything like that one at my house.  Looks like an art project to me.  But it is a fine art project.  Good find.
Joe
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Offline M1A4ME

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Re: P-09 barrel, clean enough?
« Reply #43 on: April 11, 2020, 09:06:29 PM »
If you want to look at some lands/grooves that your mind knows just aren't right but you still have a bit of trouble figuring out why - take a look down the barrel of an M1917 (US .30-06 used in WW1).  It is two kinds of "different.  #1 is it has 5 lands and grooves.  Not the usual 4 or 6.  #2 is the rifling is a left hand twist, not the usual right hand twist we are used to seeing.

The cool thing is they are pretty darned accurate.  I have no idea why they went that direction with them vs what is "normal" here in the US.  Made by Winchester, Remington and Eddystone (a Remington owned company).
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I just keep wasting time and money on other brands trying to find/make one shoot like my P07 and P09.  What is wrong with me?

Offline Wobbly

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Re: P-09 barrel, clean enough?
« Reply #44 on: April 12, 2020, 07:18:54 AM »
Looks suspiciously like the James Bond opening scene....

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