Author Topic: P-09 barrel, clean enough?  (Read 29888 times)

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Offline Vinny

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Re: P-09 barrel, clean enough?
« Reply #60 on: April 13, 2020, 04:37:30 PM »
Joe, The images from that Teslong Borescope are really good. Incredibly detailed.
I think I'm going to order one on Amazon. The $49 one yes?

Who knows what evil lurks in the dark corners of my gun cabinet.  :o
"Fear is a reaction, Courage is a decision"
"Carpe Diem"

skin

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Re: P-09 barrel, clean enough?
« Reply #61 on: April 13, 2020, 05:23:55 PM »
 I've lapped quite a few barrels to remove the roughness, and fire lapped a couple. Lately I've tried dyna-tek bore coat. If you decide to lap, go slow and look at it often. Will make cleaning easy.

Offline Joe L

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Re: P-09 barrel, clean enough?
« Reply #62 on: April 13, 2020, 05:58:47 PM »
Joe, The images from that Teslong Borescope are really good. Incredibly detailed.
I think I'm going to order one on Amazon. The $49 one yes?


Yes, this one "Teslong Rifle Borescope, Short Focus Gun Barrel Camera with Side-View Mirror.195 inches Caliber for All Barrel Inspection"
CZ-75B 9mm and Kadet, 97B"E", two P-09's, P-07, P-10C, P-10F, P-10S, MTR

Offline Joe L

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Re: P-09 barrel, clean enough?
« Reply #63 on: April 13, 2020, 06:03:47 PM »
I've lapped quite a few barrels to remove the roughness, and fire lapped a couple. Lately I've tried dyna-tek bore coat. If you decide to lap, go slow and look at it often. Will make cleaning easy.
Skin--I looked in to lapping a .22 Savage rifle once, but decided against it.  Never even thought about lapping a pistol barrel. 
I think what crud that is left in mine (carbon in chatter marks) is a result of the VFG pellet just not pressing very hard in to the corners of the grooves.  Looks like the pellets got everything it had good contact with.  What do you think? 
Joe
« Last Edit: April 14, 2020, 05:32:07 AM by Joe L »
CZ-75B 9mm and Kadet, 97B"E", two P-09's, P-07, P-10C, P-10F, P-10S, MTR

skin

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Re: P-09 barrel, clean enough?
« Reply #64 on: April 14, 2020, 03:06:55 PM »
 I think what you are seeing is frosting of the barrel. I've seen this in military rifles and police turn in's with a high round count. I'd call it good and go shootin!

Offline briang2ad

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Re: P-09 barrel, clean enough?
« Reply #65 on: April 14, 2020, 04:18:58 PM »
QC and or barrel finishing can suck.  I recently bought a brand new 92x and the barrel looks crudely finished.  Add 5K rounds to that and I wouldn't be surprised if it gets scored pretty badly also.

Companies are cranking out 9mms like cheap candy.  Lower grade steel or poor barrel finishing are possible. 

Crudely finished barrels can catch more debris.  This builds up.  Moister is held close to the surface.  Over time it forms scoring and holds more and more dirt and moisture. Premature barrel wear.  You don't need corrosive primers to eventually get this.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2020, 04:34:36 PM by briang2ad »

Offline SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM

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Re: P-09 barrel, clean enough?
« Reply #66 on: April 14, 2020, 04:29:58 PM »
QC and or barrel finishing can suck.  I recently bought a brand new 92x and the barrel looks crudely finished.  Add 5K rounds to that and I wouldn't be surprised if it gets scored pretty badly also.

Companies are cranking out 9mms like cheap candy.  Lower grade steel or poor barrel finishing are possible.
Yeah can't disagree. Recently bought a Beretta M9A3 slide to use on my 92FS so I'd have the replaceable sight option. The slide functions perfectly but the finish leaves a great deal to be desired. Nitriding is in it's future.

Offline Joe L

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Re: P-09 barrel, clean enough?
« Reply #67 on: April 14, 2020, 04:35:20 PM »
Well, the outdoor range opened back up this morning, so I went.  The plan was to shoot the P-09 and P-10C at 25 yards, but I was limited to 22 yards standing single hand due to other folks sharing the same bay (they kept their distance, however).   I had not shot anything in over 6 weeks, and my last outing was with the P-10F and only 100 rounds or so then.  So, I was a little rusty, to say the least.  Windy, 45F temp, sunny, beautiful day.

I only shot bucket Remington UMC 115 FMJ rounds.  No Atlanta Arms 115 JHP until I get back up to speed and shoot some consistently good groups with the less expensive ammo.  Besides, I want to borescope the bores after shooting JUST the Rem UMC ammo.  I'll do the same with the AA 115 JHP later maybe this week, after I get a few more remedial trigger control rounds down range.

So, all the targets below:  22 yards, standing single hand, Rem UMC 115 FMJ, no dry fire, no live fire in 6 weeks, Burris FF3 red dot sights on both pistols.  Timed fire pace, roughly 2-4 seconds between shots, no video, nervous happy-to-be-here shooter.  No "warmup" rounds. 

First the P-10C, which I had not shot in months.  The trigger on this one is the best of my P-10 pistols, really good, probably because it has the most rounds through it, by far, of my P-10 series pistols, since I've had it much longer.   The target on the left is of the first 20 rounds, shot 5 at a time in less that 20 seconds each.  The target on the right is the third target, and I had settled down some by then.  The sight is zeroed for the AA 115 ammo at 25 yards, so this pistol always groups low right if I use a center hold with the Rem UMC ammo.  I changed to a 9 ring at about 10:30 hold for the second target shown.  This was a good result for today, with this ammo and lack of range time. 



So, I put a total of 80 rounds through the P-10C, smiling with every shot, even the ones I pulled low due to rusty crummy trigger control.  It was just so good to be out shooting the pistol again.  Next, I moved the battery from the red dot on the P-10C to the P-09 so that I could shoot it.  I don't know about you, but making the transition from a striker fired trigger to a good ol' hammer gun takes a few rounds, normally.  But I have many thousands of rounds through this P-09 and it took about 20 rounds to get my P-09 trigger finger maybe half way back.  First 20 rounds on the left, second 20 on the right.  A couple of years of intensive bullseye practice helped.  I can usually shoot this pistol pretty well every time I take it out, after 20 rounds or so.  Same today.



I put a 100 rounds total through the P-09 before packing up.  So 180 rounds total for the morning.  No .22 Kadet.   No steel guns.  All polymer, but with "trigger finger and grip training ammo" instead of the good stuff.  Good stuff can wait until I make some progress on remedial trigger control training.   

The guns are good to go, after I replace all the old sight batteries.  I will record some bore videos later today.  I have already taken a look and can tell you there is some copper and carbon buildup already in the barrels, even after just 80-100 rounds.  I'll make a video before I actually clean the barrels, if I decide to clean them at all right now.  I'm thinking just keep shooting them this week. 

Joe
CZ-75B 9mm and Kadet, 97B"E", two P-09's, P-07, P-10C, P-10F, P-10S, MTR

Offline Joe L

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Re: P-09 barrel, clean enough?
« Reply #68 on: April 15, 2020, 07:34:06 AM »
Early this morning, before running any patches through the P-10C and P-09, I ran the borescope down the bores of each pistol barrel (still in the slides).  The result shows what 80 rounds through the P-10C and 100 rounds (of Remington UMC 115 FMJ) through the P-09 leave in the bores.    I doubled the speed of the borescope recording then added the narration at normal speed.  I still need to make some adapters for the borescope to hold it to the side on the mirror shots and to hold it in the center with the axial shots, mirror removed. 

https://youtu.be/-zTwpsJqKUs

Next, I think I will not clean the barrels, instead just go shoot a box of AA 115 JHP through each pistol from a rest at 50 or 100 yards and see where I am, then borescope the barrels again.  I may try to do that this afternoon, with the P-09 first, as it is obviously the one I would think MIGHT have a problem with all the tiny pits in the last inch or so of the muzzle end. 

If the P-09 shoots perfectly yet is still filthy when I borescope it again, then I am going back to my "clean it after a few thousand rounds or during every lockdown, whichever comes first" practice. 

Joe
« Last Edit: April 15, 2020, 08:10:27 AM by Joe L »
CZ-75B 9mm and Kadet, 97B"E", two P-09's, P-07, P-10C, P-10F, P-10S, MTR

Offline Vinny

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Re: P-09 barrel, clean enough?
« Reply #69 on: April 15, 2020, 08:00:48 AM »
Joe, That's really cool.
I had to order me one of those bore scopes yesterday.  ;D
« Last Edit: April 15, 2020, 05:31:38 PM by Vinny »
"Fear is a reaction, Courage is a decision"
"Carpe Diem"

Offline Joe L

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Re: P-09 barrel, clean enough?
« Reply #70 on: April 15, 2020, 05:02:41 PM »
Just for reference, here is what my .22 Kadet barrel looks like after cleaning and after sitting in a range bag for a few days with a light coat of oil.  Everything that is left in the barrel is loose lint and maybe some dust, but I couldn't get it out with a blast of air, so I am going to shoot it as is. 

https://youtu.be/IDcMLkvF0J0

This is my second Kadet barrel.  The first one developed a rough chamber and I started having some failures to extract.  I admit, I didn't spend much time trying to smooth out the chamber area as the bore had some pitting near the muzzle end.  Not that it was affecting anything, I just decided not to take a chance on it.  After all, this is my bullseye match pistol, not some lowly can plinker!!  :) :)
CZ-75B 9mm and Kadet, 97B"E", two P-09's, P-07, P-10C, P-10F, P-10S, MTR

Offline Tok36

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Re: P-09 barrel, clean enough?
« Reply #71 on: April 15, 2020, 05:14:45 PM »
How many rounds through the old Kadet barrel that you replaced Joe L?
Will work for CZ pics! (including but not limited to all CZ clones)

Offline Joe L

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Re: P-09 barrel, clean enough?
« Reply #72 on: April 15, 2020, 06:01:01 PM »
How many rounds through the old Kadet barrel that you replaced Joe L?
Somewhere between 30k and 40k, can't remember exactly, and I probably replaced it early, if I had just taken a Dremel to the chamber.  I didn't want to mess with it after that many rounds.  A new one wasn't that expensive, maybe $120 or so.  Replacing the barrel fixed the problem, without any loss of accuracy for the new barrel. 
Joe
CZ-75B 9mm and Kadet, 97B"E", two P-09's, P-07, P-10C, P-10F, P-10S, MTR

Offline Joe L

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Re: P-09 barrel, clean enough?
« Reply #73 on: April 16, 2020, 05:23:23 PM »
P-10F and Kadet results today.  I'm happy with these, considering the group size is due to my out-of-practice trigger finger and hand/eye coordination.  The barrels are fine.   Both standing, single hand, 22 yards, gusty crosswind, sunny, red dot sight, cheap ammo.   

 

"TC" on the P-10F target, 3 o'clock, 7 ring, is short for trigger control or lack thereof.  Golly, that P-10F is nice.  And the Kadet is ALWAYS good.

Joe
CZ-75B 9mm and Kadet, 97B"E", two P-09's, P-07, P-10C, P-10F, P-10S, MTR

Offline Vinny

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Re: P-09 barrel, clean enough?
« Reply #74 on: April 17, 2020, 11:38:22 AM »
Joe,
I received the Teslong short focus borescope model you recommended above ^^ $49 Amazon and it's awesome!  Came with 3 different size 90 degree mirrors, smallest for 22 caliber and  two a little larger.

Easy to hook up; I'm still learning how to navigate the software; figured out how to record snapshots and vids.

Here's a snap from my newer P-365 with only 500 rounds after my 'normal' cleaning and it was surprising to see how much copper was left on the lands.

I obviously don't have your experience or skill at recording and posting; but I can see how it's a useful tool to see what my cleanings might be missing.   :o
My first image:


Thanks so much Joe for your interesting postings!  I got something fun to occupy time during Covid and strive for.

Now, will it help me shoot any better.....THAT's gonna take a lot more than a good cleaning. HaHa!   O0
 
"Fear is a reaction, Courage is a decision"
"Carpe Diem"