P-09 barrel, clean enough?

[Joe L]

Tok36--When I lived in West Texas I didn't have to be particularly careful with oiling the bores to keep rust from forming.  Now that I am in a much more humid climate in central Texas, I am going to be a little more careful.  But just a little. 

Vinny--have you tried the reflector shown in the 97 barrel video yet? 

Also, our barrels look great, even with a little copper and carbon.  I made the mistake of going to the Hawkeye website and looking at some of their examples.  "We got nuttin' to worry about." 

I put my conclusions based on a couple of weeks with the borescope at the end of the 97 video above. 

And, some of you will be surprised to read this---I actually cleaned the barrels of every pistol I've shot in the last week, pretty soon after I got home, even if I planned to go shoot them again the next day.  I've never done that before.  Probably a good idea in this climate.

Joe
Joe

[skin]

 Joe, here in central texas, humidity and wild temp swings can be brutal on guns. I stopped using the plastic rods that go in the barrel to stack in the safe. Moisture would condense on the rods and go into the gun barrels. Lesson learned.

[Joe L]

Skin--then it is even worse than I thought!  Thanks for the tip.  All of mine are bagged but without any desssicant in the bag or in the safe. 
Joe

[Vinny]

Skin--then it is even worse than I thought!  Thanks for the tip.  All of mine are bagged but without any desssicant in the bag or in the safe. 
Joe

Yes, That's why I now keep my safe(s) and guns inside the home where A/C keeps temperature constant and humidity low.
But I've also realized just cleaning the bores with Hoppe's #9 which evaporates may not provide enough long-term storage rust/corrosion protection. I'm now wondering what bore lube/protectant I should be using especially for those pistols that don't see regular action.

[jurek]

I'm now wondering what bore lube/protectant I should be using especially for those pistols that don't see regular action.

EEZOX
Not exactly bore lube, but this one has the best results as preservative.

[M1A4ME]

Well Joe, when you started talking about the bore scope I just thought, "Nah, I don't need one of those."

Then I got this Storm Lake .40 barrel for the M&P.  The range report from the other day mentions the issues with that.  Now I've got a bore scope on order.  I figured I might as well have before and after pictures/videos of the chamber and barrel.  I'll wait till I get it figured out and get some good pictures before I polish the chamber further and start lapping the barrel.

[Joe L]

M1A4ME--"Don't aim your borescope at anything you don't intend to clean." 
Jurek--I have two cans of Eezox in the shop now.  I'll probably try it on the Kadet first, since it is the one most sensitive to high viscosity lubricants. 

Here is the video of the three barrels (P-09/P-10F/P-10C) that I finished up this morning.  I have (finally!!) put the P-09 and P-10C back together and back in the safe.  The P-10F went back in to the olive jar.  It's not done yet.  I also finished cleaning the Kart .45 barrel that I shot on Thursday at 100 yards and have put that pistol back in the safe.  But not for long. 

https://youtu.be/cD9IrITrkf4

I don't know what to think about the P-10F barrel.  I must have just packed in some carbon the first few times I shot it and then just added to it.  Whatever that is in the grooves of that barrel, this is the only one that looks this way.  All the other barrels had just a little carbon in the sides of the grooves, but I could see bare metal in the middle of the grooves so I kept after it until it was gone.  Mostly.  This P-10F barrel is the worst, and it probably has fewer rounds through it than the others.  And probably very few cleanings between range trips. 

Joe

[Vinny]

Joe, I think we've all learned something from your post. The crud just can't hide from your borescope! Once that stuff builds up into crust, running through a patch just ain't gonna cut it.
I just ordered a quart of Hoppe's #9 to strip and dip my barrels in a tall skinny jar for a real good overnight soaking and scrubbing.
I can only hope to get 'em as clean as yours!   

[Tok36]

Ill bet that the odd stuff in the P-10 barrel is because its striker fired. Darn striker fired pistols. If it was hammer fired it would be cleaner in there! 

[Joe L]

Tok36--I've thought about puttin' a hammer...and chisel to it! 

Seriously, I don't understand why the P-10F barrel accumulated what I think is carbon in the formation it exhibits in the grooves of that barrel.   I might slug it and compare it to a slug through one of the other barrels.  The carbon can't be more than 0.001" or 0.002" thick, as I don't think the grooves are but maybe 0.004" deep.  After I made the video above, I soaked the P-10F  barrel another 5 hours today then hit it with vfg pellets and JB Bore Paste and it didn't make a dent in it.  I may take a pick to the crud at the end of the barrel and see if I can get it to flake off, so I can see some smooth groove surface and confirm that what I am seeing really is just carbon buildup.  Brushes, tight patches, vfg pellets haven't made much of a dent in it, neither has soaking in Hoppes #9...yet.  I may just let it soak until Monday and then try it again. 

I may go shoot a .22 Savage rifle in the morning and let the pistols have a day off.  And let the borescope cool down a bit, too. 

I think it has been maybe 5 years since I shot that rifle.  But it was good the last time I shot it.  And I cleaned it before I put in the safe after shooting it last, because I knew it might be a while before I would shoot it again. 

Joe

[CCWLearner]

Joe, I've been following this thread and watching your videos.  My Teslong bore scope is shipped and due to arrive tomorrow.  Then I'm going to learn the ugly truth about what is actually happening inside my pistol and rifle barrels.  As far as I know, they should all be really clean...

[jurek]

[...] Then I'm going to learn the ugly truth about what is actually happening inside my pistol and rifle barrels.  As far as I know, they should all be really clean...

Don't you think we feel better in this stage? 

I don't wanna know how bed my barrels are... I will just put more bullets through them ... cleaning bullets... 

[CCWLearner]

[...] Then I'm going to learn the ugly truth about what is actually happening inside my pistol and rifle barrels.  As far as I know, they should all be really clean...

Don't you think we feel better in this stage? 

I don't wanna know how bed my barrels are... I will just put more bullets through them ... cleaning bullets... 

Yes, I know ignorance should be bliss, which is why I never spent the money on one of those expensive bore scopes... that money was better spent on ammo.  However, after seeing Joe's results with this 50-dollar bore scope, and looking at the current price of ammo, I let my curiosity get the better of me.

[Joe L]

So far, the crud I see in the barrels doesn't seem to affect the barrel performance.  What really was a wake up call for me was the pitting in the P-09 barrel.  Now that is a problem, because it meant that -- at some point -- the barrel will perform poorly, and I don't know what my chances are of replacing it and duplicating the lock up, which has always been perfect. 

So my concern is with doing what it takes maintenance-wise to prevent degradation of the barrel performance long term due to pitting, and prevention of any serious buildup of copper/carbon that will affect the sealing of the bullet in the bore and thus the accuracy.  So far, what I've found is a pretty even distribution of carbon around the bore, so the barrels still shoot well. 

Joe

[Vinny]

Joe, The pitting would concern me as well. May not effect accuracy but if there's a cause for it and it continues to get worse I'd be concerned about what's actually causing it as it's not appearing on your other barrels. Is it caustic residue left in the barrel too long?? Not running a few patches with preservative after a range session?? A defect in the barrel material?? It certainly would be good to get to the bottom of it, if you can, before it 'infects' your other barrels. COVID barrel disease? 

Well, I received a brand new barrel today for my SIG P365. My other barrel is shooting fine with 4100 rounds. But I purchased a SAS slide with the new FT flush sights I want to try. I have the original slide being milled for a Holosun 407K and I want to be able to swap slides quickly. Sooo, this gives me an opportunity to compare a brand new barrel to one with 4100 rounds that I did my 'normal' cleaning. As you can see in the images below, the used barrel has some copper on the lands but the groove edges are still sharp which I suspect keeps the exiting bullet spinning consistently which may be the key to accuracy. I'm no ballistics expert by any stretch, but I have heard the unsubstantiated anecdotal rumor that "too much cleaning and brushing can ruin a barrel faster than moderate cleaning".  I dunno, what do y'all think?