Author Topic: Recoil spring life?  (Read 3974 times)

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Offline namvet68/69

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Recoil spring life?
« on: April 22, 2020, 09:08:23 PM »
Ok guys, what is the recoil spring life (captive spring) in a CZ P-07? I shoot an average of maybe 1000/1500 rnds a year, what ya think?

Offline jurek

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Re: Recoil spring life?
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2020, 09:28:44 PM »
You're good for 3 - 4 years.
I'd say 5K rounds.

Offline Joe L

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Re: Recoil spring life?
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2020, 09:49:11 PM »
I have an opinion.  The stock spring will last a long time.  Lots of people replace them periodically anyway because they are cheap and they can't remember when they last changed it.  I used to shoot over 5k rounds per year and have many years on mine.  So I second Jurek's guideline of 5k rounds. 

Here is one way to evaluate the spring if you want something more rigorous to decide:

Shoot 10 rounds from a standing stationary position.  Note the average distance and direction that the casings land from your feet.  Say it is 7 feet when the gun is new.  Repeat the test once per year.  When the casings start landing 9' out, change the spring.  If it stays at 7', leave it alone.  The springs don't fatigue and break.  They get a little weaker with cycles.  Lots of cycles. 

I made a spring tester and used it periodically before giving up because the spring rate didn't decrease hardly any before I lost interest.  I was very concerned about it in the shorter barrel guns, say 3-4 inch barrels like a Kahr 3" .40 caliber hand canon.  The shorter barrel springs should weaken with fewer cycles than a 4.5-5" barrel gun.  I think.  So the P-07 is in the middle.  I still have a P-07 but don't shoot it much.  I think it still has the factory spring in it.  I'm not going to change it until it feels a little weaker and tosses brass a little further or doesn't lock up as tight as it used to.  Or until I just want to replace the spring since it is easier to change it out than to go find the records and round count on the last time I changed it. 

I'm not shooting high velocity hot self defense loads in my pistols.  If you shoot a lot of hot rounds then the springs may weaken a little sooner than if you were shooting light loads.  I don't know.

Joe
CZ-75B 9mm and Kadet, 97B"E", two P-09's, P-07, P-10C, P-10F, P-10S, MTR

Offline SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM

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Re: Recoil spring life?
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2020, 04:58:40 AM »
The flat wire springs last a good long time so 5,000+ is quite realistic.I recently installed a flat wire recoil spring kit in a 1911 from Wilson Combat and they guarantee it to last 15,000 rnds. On the other hand anything I have with traditional round wire springs get replacements every 3-4,000 rnds. The flat wire spring is a far superior design I think.

Offline M1A4ME

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Re: Recoil spring life?
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2020, 09:34:14 AM »
The flat wire springs last a good long time so 5,000+ is quite realistic.I recently installed a flat wire recoil spring kit in a 1911 from Wilson Combat and they guarantee it to last 15,000 rnds. On the other hand anything I have with traditional round wire springs get replacements every 3-4,000 rnds. The flat wire spring is a far superior design I think.

Read the same thing about flat wire spring life (in 1911's) vs the traditional round wire springs.

Not sure how that translates to 9MM CZs.  But CZ does put the flat wire springs in pistols these days.
I just keep wasting time and money on other brands trying to find/make one shoot like my P07 and P09.  What is wrong with me?

Offline jurek

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Re: Recoil spring life?
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2020, 10:26:41 AM »
My factory green flat spring on P-01 is still in great shape after 12K rounds.
Recently I've installed Wilson Combat flat spring kit for my 1911. I spoke with their tech supp and they guarantied 40K rounds on 9mm pistol.
 :)

Offline Claymore504

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Re: Recoil spring life?
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2020, 11:56:35 AM »
5 to 10K range easy I would say.

Offline miller_man

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Re: Recoil spring life?
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2020, 07:46:17 PM »
Had my p-09 original spring to about ~8-9k and LOTS and LOTS of dry practice. Started having minor feeding issues, replaced spring and all was well again. I replace at 5k going forward. Probably could go longer but I like guns that run like sewing machines, cheap insurance.

I DO NOT like having to unscrew and re-loctite the guide rod though, kinda a pain.
List of guns here?

Offline SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM

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Re: Recoil spring life?
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2020, 05:11:15 AM »
I DO NOT like having to unscrew and re-loctite the guide rod though, kinda a pain.
Buy a stainless guide rod from CGW and go to an upcaptured set up. That's what I did on my P-07.

Offline Wobbly

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Re: Recoil spring life?
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2020, 09:22:29 AM »
You're good for 3 - 4 years.  I'd say 5K rounds.


Unless it catches the Covid-19, at which point it will be socially distancing for at least a year.   O0
In God we trust; On 'Starting Load' we rely.

Offline jurek

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Re: Recoil spring life?
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2020, 02:37:25 PM »
You're good for 3 - 4 years.  I'd say 5K rounds.
Unless it catches the Covid-19, at which point it will be socially distancing for at least a year.   O0
:) ;) :D ;D :P O0

Offline Wobbly

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Re: Recoil spring life?
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2020, 09:05:19 AM »
Quote
Recoil spring life?

Recoil springs don't "have a life". They mainly sit at home and hang with the guide rod, which is a limp, spineless creation totally unworthy of the monikers "guide" or "rod".

There. I've said it.  :o

« Last Edit: May 06, 2020, 09:13:27 AM by Wobbly »
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Offline jurek

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Re: Recoil spring life?
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2020, 09:33:39 AM »
Quote
Recoil spring life?
Recoil springs don't "have a life". They mainly sit at home and hang with the guide rod, which is a limp, spineless creation totally unworthy of the monikers "guide" or "rod".
There. I've said it.  :o

Until the day somebody makes movie "Life of Recoil Spring". Then we will see how hard it might be to live together with Mr. Rod.   :P ;D

Offline Wobbly

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Re: Recoil spring life?
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2020, 08:29:23 AM »
Then we will see how hard it might be to live together with Mr. Rod.   :P ;D


This will be followed by a plague of bumper stickers that say "Let Rod be your guide".

 ;D

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Offline Walt Sherrill

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Re: Recoil spring life?
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2020, 09:37:37 PM »
Quote from: Joe L.
I'm not shooting high velocity hot self defense loads in my pistols.  If you shoot a lot of hot rounds then the springs may weaken a little sooner than if you were shooting light loads.  I don't know.

It would probably be hard to notice a difference in spring life. But your hand might notice a difference. :)  What wears the spring is how close to it's design limit (called its elastic limit) the spring gets as the slide compresses the spring with each round fired. Its the same with magazine springs. 

The difference?  The recoil spring cycles fully with each round, while the magazine cycles fully only when the magazine is fully loaded; each shot fired takes a bit of the load off the spring.  If you only filled the mags with 5 rounds or 10 rounds rather than 15, 17, or more rounds, you might never have to replace a magazine spring.
 
It's that deep compression over time that wears out recoil and magazine springs.  Leave the slide locked open for a long period, and it's like shooting a lot of rounds. 

Ditto leaving a magazine loaded.  Cycle the mag a lot of times, and it'll get weaker, too, but the cause is the same -- the number of times and/or the length of time the spring is held near its designed function limit can degrade the spring material.  Fully loaded, a magazine spring is working. 

Some magazine designs don't compress the mag springs completely, so they tend to have a longer life. But most high-cap mags tend to compress the springs more completely than standard capacity mags. 
  • That's why Wolff Springs recommends downloading a high-capacity  mag by a round or so if you're loading mags for long-term storage.
Not fully loading a high-cap mag for range use will also lengthen magazine spring life -- because it won't be pushing the spring to near it's design limit when you load fewer rounds. 

With recoil springs you don't have that option.

Note: over the years I shot a lot of IDPA, using the standard 75B 10-round magazines. Never had to replace the springs in any of those magazines.  When shooting elsewhere, I'd use 15 or 16 round mags, and a few of them needed replacement.  The 15 or 16 round mags were cycled less often than a 10 round magazine for the same number of rounds fired.  The difference?  They, at least back then, all used the same spring -- and the spring in the 10 round magazine was never compressed as deeply and that same spring in a 15 or 16 round magazine.  At 15-16  rounds, that spring was probably getting pretty close to its elastic limit.

Hotter rounds might eventually have an effect on the frame, but the spring won't really know the difference.  (I doubt that the frame will know the difference either, as CZ frames are pretty robust.

Most recoil springs will cycle fully/deeply as long as the gun continues to fire as it should.  If the spring is too strong for the round being fired,  it might not allow the slide to go back far enough to pick up the next round; if it's too weak it may not retain enough energy to return the slide and lock the breech.

Quote from: miller_man
Had my p-09 original spring to about ~8-9k and LOTS and LOTS of dry practice.

Dry-firing need not cause much wear on a recoil spring if you move the slide just enough to reset the striker -- maybe an 1/2" or so.  Spring life isn't much affected when the spring doesn't cycle fully or when, cycled fully, it doesn't get near to it's design limit. 

 
« Last Edit: May 02, 2020, 07:13:16 PM by Walt Sherrill »