My first steps in reloading

[Rcher]

I'm excited to start my new hobby! Finally!

I did setup Lee Turret Classic Press today for 9mm 4 dies set.
I'm getting familiar with this press and reloading, so doing "dry" reloads now, NO POWDER, NO PRIMERS. Only brass and bullets.

I installed all 4 dies according to the included instructions (very poor, I'd say), selected two clean cases with identical dimensions (Blazer Brass and R.P.) and tried to load 124gr Berry's RNDS bullets.
I set up 1.15 OAL which is recommended for my loads, but I don't care now cause they are loaded without powder. I set up light crimp (as per instructions too).

Both dummy bullets fit pistol chamber and 9mm gauge ideally, what concerns me is a visible rim on the brass where bullet ends. (marked with red arrows).
Is it expected?



Blazer Brass



R. P. (Remington)

[tdogg]

Yes, 9mm is a tapered cartridge.  When you shove a straight sided bullet into the case it will show up as a step on the case.  This is normal and expected.  What matters is that the bullet can't set back and has adequate bullet tension.  Typically folks test bullet set back by pressing the cartridge bullet first into your reloading bench (with moderate force) and measuring the OAL afterwards to see if the bullet seated any deeper.  Bullet tension is set by the sizing die (not the crimp die), so if there is bullet set back, take a look at the sizing die setup.

Even though at your chosen OAL they fit and chamber you would be better off knowing where the length becomes a problem.  You need to find the maximum OAL that will fit in your chamber with that bullet and barrel (or all barrels you intend on reloading for).  This is outlined in the this thread with excellent instruction:  https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=103620.0

I'd also review all the other really useful threads in the sticky here:  https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=100352.0

Welcome to the reloading club.  This forum is the best on the web for learning how to reload pistol!  Folks here are super knowledgeable and helpful so keep asking questions and post up your results.

Cheers,
Toby

[painter]

My experience with the Berry's RN is they'll push test close to 1.20, which is far longer than will fit in the magazine. That said, 1.15 is a little long for the regular Berry's RN due to the fact that your seating depth is only .183. Ignore that number if you're actually using the HBRN.

The coke bottle shape is perfectly normal.

[Wobbly]

Even though at your chosen OAL they fit and chamber you would be better off knowing where the length becomes a problem.  You need to find the maximum OAL that will fit in your chamber with that bullet and barrel (or all barrels you intend on reloading for).  This is outlined in the this thread with excellent instruction:  https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=103620.0

Welcome aboard !

Toby was spot on, but allow me to further emphasize one of his points. The Barrel is The Queen; she who must be obeyed.

It doesn't matter what your recipe, any "friend", a CZ Forum moderator, any other book, or set of instructions tells you. If the ammo doesn't fit the Barrel's chamber then it cannot be fired in that barrel and it's therefore useless. So the first thing you MUST do is satisfy the barrel. We can even take that one step further... Within reason, it doesn't even matter what the round looks like. If it meets the safety requirements, AND fits the chamber, then it's OK to proceed.

In this way we learn that reloading is mostly a Science composed of hard facts and figures. Thus, weights, lengths, diameters, specifications mean far more than "what it looks like". There is also some Art, but that 'kicks in' well after the Science has been met and satisfied.

So the very first step with any bullet that's new to you is to discover the Maximum OAL. The Max OAL is a product of how that bullet fits inside the chamber. 1) This will be a different number for every bullet-barrel combination. You cannot look at a new bullet and tell, you MUST measure. 2) It doesn't mean we're going to directly use the number, it simply becomes one of your hard "Limits". In football you must play between the chalk lines. If you make the world's greatest ever catch outside the lines ("out of bounds"), then it all counts for nothing. In reloading if you build a fantastic cartridge outside the Limits, then it's the same... all your efforts are wasted. So you must learn where those limits (or boundaries) are before you start.

The articles Toby suggested will explain more about where those limits are AND how to test for them.


Once found, we highly suggest you record that information in your personal reloading notebook. Since the bullet is the variable factor, I suggest you set aside one new page for every new-to-you bullet you encounter. Write it down while it's fresh in your mind because in 2 weeks you won't have a clue.


This is all new territory. You're drinking from a fire hose while you learn your Press and learn the 9mm Cartridge and learn Reloading. You'll have questions. We've been there. We are only here because others helped us through this stage. So please understand, it's OK to ask questions.

All the best. 

[Wobbly]

I set up light crimp (as per instructions too).

This terminology is in error. You have learned it from your reading, but you will go further in your understanding of proper 9mm Luger reloading if you begin to think in another way....

The Taper Crimp is one of the features (in reality: a hard dimension) that helps the cartridge meet the requirements of the barrel. If you did not change the barrel, then the dimension that helps satisfy the barrel did not change either. Taper Crimp is therefore a function of the barrel. You can try 100 different bullets, but until you change the barrel, there is only a very small range of dimensions that the barrel will accept. In other words, once the barrel is satisfied with your Taper Crimp dimension you will not be changing it again.

By using the term "Light Taper Crimp", you infer that there is such a thing as "Heavy" and "Moderate" taper crimp. There is not. There is only the small range of hard dimensions that satisfies the requirements of your one and only CZ barrel.

I tell you all this so that you can simply say, "My taper crimp is set correctly" and you're done. Taper Crimp is part of that Science that I discussed earlier. It's either spot-on and it works, or it's the equivalent of that out of bounds catch and is worthless.

 

[Rcher]

My experience with the Berry's RN is they'll push test close to 1.20, which is far longer than will fit in the magazine. That said, 1.15 is a little long for the regular Berry's RN due to the fact that your seating depth is only .183. Ignore that number if you're actually using the HBRN.

The coke bottle shape is perfectly normal.

Yes, I will try push test on my pistol. The thing is that I'm using Berry's 124gr RNDS, not HBRN. (I will post photo of bullet and it's dimensions). So, Berrys recommend to use 1.15 as safe OAL.

[painter]

My experience with the Berry's RN is they'll push test close to 1.20, which is far longer than will fit in the magazine. That said, 1.15 is a little long for the regular Berry's RN due to the fact that your seating depth is only .183. Ignore that number if you're actually using the HBRN.

The coke bottle shape is perfectly normal.

Yes, I will try push test on my pistol. The thing is that I'm using Berry's 124gr RNDS, not HBRN. (I will post photo of bullet and it's dimensions). So, Berrys recommend to use 1.15 as safe OAL.

It's absolutely safe, but IMO not ideal.

[Rcher]

Wobbly, thank you for the kind words. I was learning reloading theory for more than one year, I must admit that this forum inspired me to think about it. I looked tons of videos on YouTube and studied Lee Reloading manual even before I bought press. I collected and cleaned my brass and purchased projectiles on Black Friday! (I'm thrifty ). But only now I have time (chance given by "working from home") to practice and learn. And I'm aware that the practice is the best learning and "goes slow - goes far". My Classic Turret Press is installed, today I did some lubrication and, boy, ram moves almost silently now!  My powder and primers still on the way (impossible to find anything, but I caught CCI 500 and Winchester 231 on MidwayUsa.com. Not cheap, if I was wise I would bought them earlier).

By using the term "Light Taper Crimp", you infer that there is such a thing as "Heavy" and "Moderate" taper crimp. There is not. There is only the small range of hard dimensions that satisfies the requirements of your one and only CZ barrel.
 

Here I basically followed Lee instructions how to install Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die. They say "Screw die in, until it just touches the shell holder and back out the adjusting screw. With the loaded round in the die, turn the adjusting screw in 1/2 turn for a light crimp and one full turn for a heavy crimp..... "

[Rcher]

I have a question about factory new Lee dies. Any cleaning/lubrication is needed? What about O-rings?
I saw a video where "paint thinner" was recommended to clean new dies (to keep interiors dry and clean of any future residue) and lately slight lube on exteriors.

[Rcher]

My experience with the Berry's RN is they'll push test close to 1.20, which is far longer than will fit in the magazine. That said, 1.15 is a little long for the regular Berry's RN due to the fact that your seating depth is only .183. Ignore that number if you're actually using the HBRN.

The coke bottle shape is perfectly normal.

Yes, I will try push test on my pistol. The thing is that I'm using Berry's 124gr RNDS, not HBRN. (I will post photo of bullet and it's dimensions). So, Berrys recommend to use 1.15 as safe OAL.

It's absolutely safe, but IMO not ideal.

Here's dimensions of the bullet:



Pulled out bullet:

[painter]

I still maintain that 1.15 is too long.

[George16]

That’s a heavy crimp on that bullet you pulled. I wouldn’t recommend using the factory crimp die on plated bullets especially Berry’s which measures .356” dia. The FCD swages down the bullet and can damage the coating.

I’d recommend using a taper crimp die for plated bullets like Berry’s because of the .356 diameter.

[Wobbly]

Rcher -

Some comments....

• First of all... You're doing great ! You're learning. You're having fun. You're experimenting. This last one is most important, because like I said, a great deal of this hobby is science, and experimenting is simply part of science. You've got the tools and you're using them. That's so good to see.

Here I basically followed Lee instructions how to install Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die.

• The Lee instructions are really just enough to get you close. You've got to tweak and adjust so that the output makes a product that's right for your barrel. One of the reasons is that the CZ barrel simply requires more precise settings than your typical Ruger or S&W 9mm.

• Additionally, you'll find that the Lee FCD is an item that people either love or hate. If you think people get opinionated about politics, all that pales in comparison to feelings about the FCD !! Let's just say it's good enough to start with, but if you ever order from Midway or Grafs again, then add in one of these to have on hand.... Lee Taper Crimp Die. That will be $13 well spent.

• As to OAL.... Berry doesn't tell you what your OAL should be, that's a job best left to your Queen, the barrel. "Listen to the barrel" was the entire purpose of my first post. Not saying that 1.150" won't work, because it will fit. But we did a lot of testing here some years ago and proved that the bullets like to be more deeply seated, typically between 0.200 and 0.0250". That means you need to get down to at least 1.130". However, you needn't take my word for it. Load some at both lengths and see for yourself.

• As far as bullet length of your 124gr Berry RN... we know what that number is because we have THIS. If you'll average the length of 10 of your bullets, then I bet you'll come up with our number. Berry makes the very best plated bullets, and we've been using them almost 20 years. In fact they used to sponsor this very forum. So we're fairly comfortable with what we're advising you on.

• Your last photo (of the pulled bullet) looks normal to me. Usually a taper crimp in the correct range will leave a small indent in the bullet, which I see yours certainly has. However, as per THIS ARTICLE we'd still like you to set up your die to achieve case mouth diameters between 0.376 and 0.378". Or, as suggested, if you have a single brand of brass, then press a Berry into a sized case and measure that.

I have a question about factory new Lee dies. Any cleaning/lubrication is needed?

• I never have cleaned. I thoroughly disassemble and inspect, but knowing the Lee dies will rust, I would not do a lot of oil removal. In fact, I coat my Lee and Hornady dies with waxy case lube to keep them nice looking and to insure trouble-free operation.

Conclusion
• From all that I'm seeing and hear you saying, I think your're ready to load your first rounds this weekend. If you need any last minute clarifications I'll be popping in and out all day and we'll all be happy to assist.

All the best.

[SoCal]

I saw a video where "paint thinner" was recommended to clean new dies (to keep interiors dry and clean of any future residue) and lately slight lube on exteriors.

IMHO paint thinner is a little aggressive, any o-ring in a die may age prematurely.  I use Hornady "One Shot Cleaner" on new dies.  It cleans and leaves a dry film on the outside which helps prevent rust.  I reapply to dies on a regular basis.  BUT any mild de-greaser followed by a LIGHT wipe down with oil will work.

Good Luck

P.s. I use "One Shot Cleaner" to clean the entire press

[tdogg]

Plus 1 on the hornady one shot cleaner.   It leaves a film behind for excellent corrosion protection.

Cheers,
Toby

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