AR-15 Pistols?!

[Gunnerdad80]

I’m looking into getting an AR-15 pistol. I have never owned any AR-15 style weapon. Now where my confusion sets in is can I LEGALLY shoulder an AR-15 pistol while I shoot it? I’ve watched several videos where people are doing exactly this but most are a year or two old at least. For some reason I can’t seem to definitively answer this question for myself. As a law-abiding gun owners, of course, I want to follow the law so can anybody clear this up for me?

[Earl Keese]

Definitive answers and the ATF do not go hand in hand. As I understand it, you can shoulder a braced pistol. Heck, my brace is adjustable just like a carbine stock.

[BG ARMORY]

To date i have not heard of anyone actually being convicted or going to trial for putting a shoulder brace into their shoulder and shooting it.

Also the atf letters are NOT LAW, like everyone treats them. They are an OPINION, hence the name OPINION letters, and subject to change at any time without notifying you that they changed their mind.

My 10.5 Mk18 copy is my favorite rifle to shoot, just as accurate as my 14.5 at 200 but not so great beyond that.

[M1A4ME]

A lot of complaints about functioning issues with AR15 pistols.  I bought both my complete uppers from PSA and they have been 100% reliable so far.

One has a 10.5" barrel and the other an 8.5" barrel.

Lots of complaints about noise from an AR15 pistol.  I have "flash cans" on both of mine.  A Noveske Pig on the 8.5" and a (darn, never can remember the name) cheaper version on the 10.5" pistol.  When I'm shooting them I can't tell the difference between them and any magnum caliber revolver. 

Both of mine have H2 buffers in the tubes, standard carbine springs, back up sights (which work surprisingly well considering how far out from my eyes the rear sight it when shooting it off the bench - like a pistol) and red dot optics.  One has a DP PRO on it and the other has one of the advanced red dots from Primary Arms (that 50,000 hr. battery life thing really appeals to me.)

Same lowers, same uppers, same lower parts kit (with the exception of the butt stock if you buy the bigger lower parts kit by mistake).

[Gunnerdad80]

A lot of complaints about functioning issues with AR15 pistols.  I bought both my complete uppers from PSA and they have been 100% reliable so far.

One has a 10.5" barrel and the other an 8.5" barrel.

Lots of complaints about noise from an AR15 pistol.  I have "flash cans" on both of mine.  A Noveske Pig on the 8.5" and a (darn, never can remember the name) cheaper version on the 10.5" pistol.  When I'm shooting them I can't tell the difference between them and any magnum caliber revolver. 

Both of mine have H2 buffers in the tubes, standard carbine springs, back up sights (which work surprisingly well considering how far out from my eyes the rear sight it when shooting it off the bench - like a pistol) and red dot optics.  One has a DP PRO on it and the other has one of the advanced red dots from Primary Arms (that 50,000 hr. battery life thing really appeals to me.)

Same lowers, same uppers, same lower parts kit (with the exception of the butt stock if you buy the bigger lower parts kit by mistake).

Ok...but is it legal to shoulder an AR-15 pistol while shooting it? THAT, dear sir, was the question. 

[Ken6PPC]

Ok...but is it legal to shoulder an AR-15 pistol while shooting it? THAT, dear sir, was the question. 

YES, it is legal to shoulder a pistol with a brace. 

ATF said it was legal when this first came up in 2012, and then later reversed themselves in 2015 and said that shouldering a brace made the pistol into an unlicensed Short Barreled Rifle.  Then ATF changed their minds again in 2017 and said it WAS LEGAL to shoulder a pistol brace, as long as the original design was intended as a brace. 

I can't imagine them changing their minds again. 

https://vpc.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Pistol-brace-ATF-letter-March-21-2017.pdf

YES, it is legal to shoulder a pistol with a brace.  Just be careful not to modify it... 

[Here2learn]

Would you mind sharing what state your licensed to practice law in please?  Thanks

[Ken6PPC]

Would you mind sharing what state your licensed to practice law in please?  Thanks

LOL!  I am licensed in my State Of Mind! 

There have been MILLIONS of these sold and used.  EVERYONE with a pistol brace shoulders them.  NO ONE has ever been arrested or prosecuted for doing so.  The letter I linked to put this question to rest for the shooting community, except for a few...  Make up your own mind... 

Paranoid much?  LOL! 

[AZ_CZ]

It is currently an acceptable use of the device per the ATF.  Could that change, yes. It is just their current Opinion or interpretation on the use of the brace. Bumpfire stocks used to be legal to own and use per the ATF also: new day, new letter, new ruling. No worries If it changes you’ll just need to apply for a $200 tax stamp and presto SBR, you own a short barrel rifle.

[Ken6PPC]

It is currently an acceptable use of the device per the ATF.  Could that change, yes. It is just their current Opinion or interpretation on the use of the brace. Bumpfire stocks used to be legal to own and use per the ATF also: new day, new letter, new ruling. No worries If it changes you’ll just need to apply for a $200 tax stamp and presto SBR, you own a short barrel rifle.

Bumpfire stocks are still in question.  There are lawsuits working their way through the courts. 

Ultimately, the SCOTUS may rule on whether the government may simply "declare" something to be illegal that was purchased legally. 

I personally don't care about bump stocks, but I do care about the prescendent that it creates.  The government should not be permitted to rule something that was legal one day to become illegal the next day, without due process of law.  The government should also not be allowed to require citizens to turn in any (previously) legally owned possession without compensation. 

Seems "grandfathering" would be the only fair and logical way to make something that was legal suddenly change to illegal...  Even Drop-In Auto Sears were allowed to be registered as a machine gun (if done by a certain date) instead of just declaring them illegal! 

[Grendel]

Stick to the OP's question please gents. He didn't ask about bumpfire stocks, he asked about pistol braces.

Thank you.

[Gunnerdad80]

Stick to the OP's question please gents. He didn't ask about bumpfire stocks, he asked about pistol braces.

Thank you.

Yes, I only want to know if I can shoulder fire an AR-15 pistol which is only allowed to have a brace, not a shoulder stock or bump stock. Even though a bump stock would be freakin sweet. 

[eastman]

Stick to the OP's question please gents. He didn't ask about bumpfire stocks, he asked about pistol braces.

Thank you.

But it is relevant, since the only thing that keeps an AR pistol with a shouldered brace from being an illegally made SBR is an ATF guidance letter, and just like was the case with bumpstocks, an administrative reversal equals instant felon.

[Grendel]

He doesn't have a bumpfire stock, and although I have no desire to put words in his mouth, does he care whether they are legal or not, other than in a general way.

He asked about braces.

Braces are legal - at the moment, as is shouldering them

No one can see the future. So lets not introduce irrelevancies.

Thank you.