S2, S2 Orange, or TSO?

[Linuxjon]

Hey guys! First post. I'm sure this has been asked, but I'm about to make a major purchase and really want feedback from people who have owned the guns. I'm in CA, so I'll be paying a huge private party markup AND won't be able to test anything first. Want to get it right.

I shoot IDPA with a g34 right now. I realize basically none of the high end CZs are gonna be legal there, which is fine. I'm looking for a gun to branch into USPSA with. I already have a Tactical Sport that I love dearly, but not sure I want to burn that gun into the ground. I really love the idea of the TSO, but am worried it's silly to own both. The Shadow 2 looks tempting, as does spending the extra money on the S2 Orange. A PM9 would be legal in IDPA too, but those are out of stock everywhere.

If I already own a TS, am I going to be disappointed by the trigger in the Shadows?

[Luvdog]

You won’t be disappointed in a nice tuned S2.  If you’ve already got a TS, the. I’d go with the S2.  It gives you the option of production and you could get another slide or mill it and do CO

[Earl Keese]

What USPSA class are you interested in? If you don't want to burn your standard TS into the ground, why spend the extra $$ on a TSO or S2 Orange?

[2morechains]

Personally I would select which USPSA division you‘re interested in, then select the right gun for that division. 

You already have the TS to shoot Limited or Limited-10 division.  S2 or S2O would be good choices for Production, or get them milled for a rds and shoot Carry Optics. 

[Linuxjon]

What USPSA class are you interested in? If you don't want to burn your standard TS into the ground, why spend the extra $$ on a TSO or S2 Orange?

I'd either shoot production or limited. I shoot CO in idpa, but I'm not really sure the dot does me any big favors.

I bought my TS used after they were discontinued. There's definitely some rail wear from the former owner not using a heavy enough lube for wear surfaces. Probably paranoid, but I really love the gun and would rather baby it and wear something else out that I'm buying just for that purpose.

[tdogg]

So if you want to shoot production, then get an S2.

If you want to shoot limited, then get a TSO in 40 and shoot limited major.

If you shoot a glock, then you won't be disappointed with any CZ trigger.  With a few tweaks an S2 will rival the TS (in SA).

Cheers,
Toby

[Luvdog]

The TS isn't a collectors item... as far as I know. I think of the TSO as something a bit more desirable/harder to find, but even then it's made to be used.

Is your TS .40?  if so then you're already setup for Limited.

Like I mentioned above... the S2 would fit for what you listed.  Tune it up and shoot Production, since that's why it was made.

Drop in a SAO trigger, add a magwell, get some basepads and shoot it in limited minor.

It seems like the most versatile for what you want.

[Linuxjon]

Thanks for the input everyone. 

My TS is 9mm. Am I really going to gain that much by going to .40 in uspsa?

I know a lot of guys love .40 minor, but it seems like my experience with friends has always been reliability issues there.

[2morechains]

.40 allows you to be score major PF in USPSA.  9mm is minor PF only. 

A zone hit is 5 pts, Major or minor
C zone is 4 pts major, 3 pts minor
D zone is 2 pts major, 1 pt minor

Yeah, major is worth it, especially when the majority of your competition is shooting/scored major PF.  The 2-3 rnd additional capacity in 9mm is not worth the points loss from hitting Cs and Ds. 

[scroadkill]

yep.. limited minor is fine for your first year of uspsa. The steep learning curve wont much care about 3-5 points/stage you may loose to shooting minor. Lots of C and D class shooters stick with 9mm for a while as they learn the game - and the TS/TSO/S2 are all excellent limited minor guns.  But once you make B class you better start thinking 40 loaded to major power factor.. The TS and TSO frames supports both calibers BTW. Swapping uppers is easy.

It is rare to see B class or above shooters running limited minor and for good reason.  Its really hard to hit all alphas with iron sights shooting on the move and staying on the move.  And if you ain't moving in USPSA you are losing. Once you make the jump to major you will notice an immediate 10% bump in match points as what you aim at expands from the A zone to the A/C zone.. Then you will get another 10% bump as the larger target zone allows you to shoot and move much more aggressively and you find those 10-20 seconds/match you were curious about. At some point you are shooting and moving as fast as you can see.

Speaking from experience the TSO is a great platform for C & B class. I shoot a lot and haven't seen in person any A/M/GM class shooter running a TS/TSO in Limited. The 2011 weight and trigger start to matter. I'm on the A class bubble at the moment.. once I make it I may make the switch... or at least experiment a bit comparing the two platforms.

[Linuxjon]

Thanks scroadkill. That's actually hugely helpful.

Last question. Has anyone here shot a SP01 Shadow Orange? The shorter sight radius makes me think I'd be better with the S2, but I know it would be IDPA legal.

[2morechains]

I used to own a SP-01 Shadow that had been customized by CZ Custom and would probably recommend that gun over the SP-01 Orange. 

https://czcustom.com/new-firearms/cz-pistols-custom/sp01-shadow-custom-black.html?___SID=U

The SP-01 Shadow has been customized by CZ Custom, doing many of the things that the factory does to the Shadow Orange, but IMO better given CZC’s reputation.  It is legal for IDPA’s SSP division or ESP.  CZ Custom does a really nice trigger job polishing the internals and installs their short disconnector in it for a really short reset.  Back then, this was one of the top choices for USPSA Production division if you wanted a DA/SA gun.  I shot mine for a couple of years, then sold it when I switched divisions, right around the time the Shadow 2 was released. 

I also competed with a 75 Shadow custom black from CZ Custom.  Only difference is it has the short dust cover.  I still have that gun, and sometimes shoot it at matches.  It shares the same internals and tuning job as the SP-01 Shadow custom black.  However I see on CZC’s website it is out of stock. 

If looking for a gun that is legal for both IDPA and USPSA, I would look at either model from CZC for a out of the box match-ready CZ. 

[DesertRatR]

I ma interested in a Shadow 2 Black and Blue or Shadow 2 Orange. As near as I can tell the only difference is the bushing on the Orange. Or is there something else I am missing?  The $600 difference is a lot.

[2morechains]

I ma interested in a Shadow 2 Black and Blue or Shadow 2 Orange. As near as I can tell the only difference is the bushing on the Orange. Or is there something else I am missing?  The $600 difference is a lot.

S2 Orange is hand fitted at the factory and more labor goes into it than the regular production line Shadow 2’s. 

Personally the Black and Blue is pretty good out of the box and with $60 worth of springs and pins from CGW can be DIY into a very serviceable handgun for range use or competition.  I went this route with no regrets. 

[timmy75]

here in EU there is €970 ($1100) difference between S2O>S2

you get:
bushing
hand fitting
polishing
disconnector
hammer
orange grips (same as original)
left extended safety
orange mag catch (same as original)
orange base pads
a few springs and "better" pistol box

for that amount of money i would like to see more:

additional thinner front sight, fully adjustable rear sight, better grips (probably brass), sear cage fitting like in TSO, at least 4 magazines in box, more springs (main, recoil, trigger, firing pin), left and right extended safety, at least one backup slide stop (low profile), backup extractor, floating trigger pin, old style CGW 85C trigger, optic ready cut and bull barrel maybe