Bren 2 9" FTE/Stovepipe issues

[Archos]

If you dont follow the thread on Arfcom, I'll post my most recent updates here.

I posted on the Cz-USA Facebook page then sent the same message to the Cz-Usa warranty email and CZUB's contact us form. This is what I posted:

This month marks the one year anniversary of the beginning of my FTE malfunctions with my 7.62x39 Bren 2. Since then my first Bren 2 went back to your facility 3 times.

The first two times it was sent back to me with the remarks that it was caused by lacquer coated ammo and that the weapon was too dirty. Every time it came back it would malfunction on the very next range session and would go back to your facility.

After the third trip back, many more cases had been reported and CZ finally began to take the reports seriously. This resulted in CZ sending me a replacement 7.62x39 Bren 2. Unfortunately, this pistol had the very same issues my first Bren had.

I tried to troubleshoot this firearm as well, with no success. My biggest finding was that the ejector spring channel was clogged with metal shavings causing the plunger to bind. Not only that, my ejector spring was kinked. Unfortunately this gun is still waiting a fix from CZ.

My question to you is this: how much longer must we wait for you to fix your product? One year of waiting is not only absolutely ridiculous, it is borderline negligent on your end. It would be different if you would keep us in the loop, let us know what is going on. The last time I posted on your Facebook accout was months ago, and you stated the team from CZ had flown to the states to test ammo available here in the US. Nothing since then has been mentioned.

CZub replied first:

Hello Tfdarchos,

Thank you for reaching out.

We are sorry you are experiencing troubles with your rifle. We are fully aware of the problem with BREN 2 rifles of this caliber and we have been analyzing the problems with utmost thoroughness.

I have checked the current status with the responsible management internally in CZ. We will release an official statement on this topic soon with instructions for our customers and all the necessary information.

Let us apologize for the delay with the resolution of this problem, we will do our best to avoid such situations in the future.

S pozdravem / Kind regards

*****

Marketing Specialist

Later that day CZ USA replied with this:

Tfdarchos,

I am very sorry for the current situation and completely understand your frustration. Believe me when I say we are just as frustrated as you. There are a lot of factors that have hindered the factory’s progress on a solution. Traveling from the Czech Republic to the states for testing has proved challenging as is finding many different brands of ammunition to test with.

A Czech team from the factory has been here several times now and they believe the most recent visit was successful. Please understand that while we have been working to find a solution we have to be careful about how much information is released in order to limit false reports and misinformation as it gets circulated online.

At this point the factory does believe they have determined the cause and found a solution but it will likely be at least several months before we receive the necessary parts here in the states. At that point we will likely want to do some wider range testing with as many types and brands of ammunition as we can with several different firearms to validate results before releasing the fix to the public. While we understand the situation is frustrating we want to be sure that, when a fix is released, it is indeed a fix and not a temporary solution.

This whole process has taken much longer than any of us would have liked or expected which is why we have offered and are still offering refunds or 5.56 replacements for our customers. I see in your most recent RMA that you do not want a refund or replacement so unfortunately the only thing I can offer is hope that a solution is in the near future. If you have changed your mind please let us know and we can proceed accordingly.

We will keep working as diligently as possible so this issue can be conclusively resolved and I sincerely apologize again on behalf of the entire CZUB/CZ-USA team.

*********

Gunsmith & Technical Support Supervisor

[czkyle1776]

Thanks for sharing their responses with us. I don't understand why they can't put this out there to let people know that they're actively trying. I bet there would have been a lot less distrust and loss of faith in CZ by some if they made this stuff public. Put out periodic press releases on the known issue. I know this comes from a marketing person, but it does come off as a sincere statement that they're trying and I do believe it. If you want to see how a company does things the right way, look at how Desert Tech handled the criticisms of the MDR. They heard the feedback, investigated, addressed how they could have done better, and improved the product. They were transparent and forthright with the information and didn't try and sweep it aside. I wasn't aware of the initial criticism of the MDR until I saw this response video, so it can be argued that admitting to a product's issues can harm said product, but just the fact that they put it out there blew me away and makes me trust the product moreso than before. https://youtu.be/9ed01kq20dM

[MeatAxe]

If you dont follow the thread on Arfcom, I'll post my most recent updates here.

I posted on the Cz-USA Facebook page then sent the same message to the Cz-Usa warranty email and CZUB's contact us form. This is what I posted:

This month marks the one year anniversary of the beginning of my FTE malfunctions with my 7.62x39 Bren 2. Since then my first Bren 2 went back to your facility 3 times.

The first two times it was sent back to me with the remarks that it was caused by lacquer coated ammo and that the weapon was too dirty. Every time it came back it would malfunction on the very next range session and would go back to your facility.

After the third trip back, many more cases had been reported and CZ finally began to take the reports seriously. This resulted in CZ sending me a replacement 7.62x39 Bren 2. Unfortunately, this pistol had the very same issues my first Bren had.

I tried to troubleshoot this firearm as well, with no success. My biggest finding was that the ejector spring channel was clogged with metal shavings causing the plunger to bind. Not only that, my ejector spring was kinked. Unfortunately this gun is still waiting a fix from CZ.

My question to you is this: how much longer must we wait for you to fix your product? One year of waiting is not only absolutely ridiculous, it is borderline negligent on your end. It would be different if you would keep us in the loop, let us know what is going on. The last time I posted on your Facebook accout was months ago, and you stated the team from CZ had flown to the states to test ammo available here in the US. Nothing since then has been mentioned.

CZub replied first:

Hello Tfdarchos,

Thank you for reaching out.

We are sorry you are experiencing troubles with your rifle. We are fully aware of the problem with BREN 2 rifles of this caliber and we have been analyzing the problems with utmost thoroughness.

I have checked the current status with the responsible management internally in CZ. We will release an official statement on this topic soon with instructions for our customers and all the necessary information.

Let us apologize for the delay with the resolution of this problem, we will do our best to avoid such situations in the future.

S pozdravem / Kind regards

*****

Marketing Specialist

Later that day CZ USA replied with this:

Tfdarchos,

I am very sorry for the current situation and completely understand your frustration. Believe me when I say we are just as frustrated as you. There are a lot of factors that have hindered the factory’s progress on a solution. Traveling from the Czech Republic to the states for testing has proved challenging as is finding many different brands of ammunition to test with.

A Czech team from the factory has been here several times now and they believe the most recent visit was successful. Please understand that while we have been working to find a solution we have to be careful about how much information is released in order to limit false reports and misinformation as it gets circulated online.

At this point the factory does believe they have determined the cause and found a solution but it will likely be at least several months before we receive the necessary parts here in the states. At that point we will likely want to do some wider range testing with as many types and brands of ammunition as we can with several different firearms to validate results before releasing the fix to the public. While we understand the situation is frustrating we want to be sure that, when a fix is released, it is indeed a fix and not a temporary solution.

This whole process has taken much longer than any of us would have liked or expected which is why we have offered and are still offering refunds or 5.56 replacements for our customers. I see in your most recent RMA that you do not want a refund or replacement so unfortunately the only thing I can offer is hope that a solution is in the near future. If you have changed your mind please let us know and we can proceed accordingly.

We will keep working as diligently as possible so this issue can be conclusively resolved and I sincerely apologize again on behalf of the entire CZUB/CZ-USA team.

*********

Gunsmith & Technical Support Supervisor

Well, talk is cheap, especially after the fact.

MAC and HBI seem to have figured out the fte issue and fixed it, simply with a smaller port on the gas regulator and a stiffer piston spring for good measure.

Instead of fixing the malfunctioning Bren 2s and supplying their customers with necessary spare parts, CZ has been preoccupied with using every spare part to crank out finished guns ahead of a potential AWB in the US and in fulfilling big military contracts abroad.

No doubt, CZ has maximized profits over the past couple of years. Only now that bad publicity has caught up with them on the x39 Brens is CZ even talking about fixing the problem.

[scotheocelot]

Well, talk is cheap, especially after the fact.

MAC and HBI seem to have figured out the fte issue and fixed it, simply with a smaller port on the gas regulator and a stiffer piston spring for good measure.

Instead of fixing the malfunctioning Bren 2s and supplying their customers with necessary spare parts, CZ has been preoccupied with using every spare part to crank out finished guns ahead of a potential AWB in the US and in fulfilling big military contracts abroad.

No doubt, CZ has maximized profits over the past couple of years. Only now that bad publicity has caught up with them on the x39 Brens is CZ even talking about fixing the problem.

Well said. I understand CZ (as well as other manufacturers) pumping out completed pistols/rifles in fear of a ban.  As a company, you have to find a balance. I know they want to place as many products in owners hands, but at what cost? Will people buy products that cannot be sufficiently supported?  Maybe with the merger CZ will have American influences within the company to promote service and support. We are not the Czech Republic. American firearm owners hold companies accountable, especially those who ask premium pricing for their products.  It is true HBI is on the ball and I’m thankful of their support & service. I am willing to bet CZ has been working with HBI behind the scenes testing their gas ports and springs. I also wouldn’t be surprised if that winds up being the “permanent fix” in the future.

Does anyone else find it a little comical that a rifle built and implemented in 1947 runs on nearly every variant of 7.62x39 ammo while CZ struggles with modern technology, machining and 70 years of usage?


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[MeatAxe]

Well, talk is cheap, especially after the fact.

MAC and HBI seem to have figured out the fte issue and fixed it, simply with a smaller port on the gas regulator and a stiffer piston spring for good measure.

Instead of fixing the malfunctioning Bren 2s and supplying their customers with necessary spare parts, CZ has been preoccupied with using every spare part to crank out finished guns ahead of a potential AWB in the US and in fulfilling big military contracts abroad.

No doubt, CZ has maximized profits over the past couple of years. Only now that bad publicity has caught up with them on the x39 Brens is CZ even talking about fixing the problem.

Well said. I understand CZ (as well as other manufacturers) pumping out completed pistols/rifles in fear of a ban.  As a company, you have to find a balance. I know they want to place as many products in owners hands, but at what cost? Will people buy products that cannot be sufficiently supported?  Maybe with the merger CZ will have American influences within the company to promote service and support. We are not the Czech Republic. American firearm owners hold companies accountable, especially those who ask premium pricing for their products.  It is true HBI is on the ball and I’m thankful of their support & service. I am willing to bet CZ has been working with HBI behind the scenes testing their gas ports and springs. I also wouldn’t be surprised if that winds up being the “permanent fix” in the future.

Does anyone else find it a little comical that a rifle built and implemented in 1947 runs on nearly every variant of 7.62x39 ammo while CZ struggles with modern technology, machining and 70 years of usage?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The AK was designed to be overgassed and built to handle it, to overcome dirt, fouling and dodgy ammo to function reliably. The other main infantry rifle of the era, the FAL, solves that problem with a sophisticated gas regulator with 6 or 8 settings to deal with such adverse conditions.

The Bren 2, being basically an AR18 design, requires a bit more finesse than the AK to operate, but I don’t think just 2 gas settings are enough for citizens, especially with the vast array of x39 ammo floating around in the commercial market.

Personally, I would have liked to have seen the Bren 2 with multiple gas settings, like the FAL, then we likely could have avoided these fte issues.

[Archos]

I am willing to bet CZ has been working with HBI behind the scenes testing their gas ports and springs. I also wouldn’t be surprised if that winds up being the “permanent fix” in the future.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I sure hope that it is only part of the fix. I have all the upgrades from HBI and my gun still does not work. Currently it is a single shot rifle as it jams after every single round fired.

[MeatAxe]

I am willing to bet CZ has been working with HBI behind the scenes testing their gas ports and springs. I also wouldn’t be surprised if that winds up being the “permanent fix” in the future.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I sure hope that it is only part of the fix. I have all the upgrades from HBI and my gun still does not work. Currently it is a single shot rifle as it jams after every single round fired.

So your Bren 2 is still malfunctioning, even with HBI’s smaller gas port and stiffer piston spring?

[Archos]

Yes, both the spring and smaller suppressor port. It worked amazingly for about 120 rounds. Both unsuppressed and suppressed were ejecting 2-3 o'clock. After then the ejection pattern changed to 1 o'clock and I began to have FTE again.

The gun now fails almost every single round. It will also lock back on the last round and have the spent case spun 180 degrees laying on the feed lips of the magazine. This also happened with the shell deflector off.

[MeatAxe]

Yes, both the spring and smaller suppressor port. It worked amazingly for about 120 rounds. Both unsuppressed and suppressed were ejecting 2-3 o'clock. After then the ejection pattern changed to 1 o'clock and I began to have FTE again.

The gun now fails almost every single round. It will also lock back on the last round and have the spent case spun 180 degrees laying on the feed lips of the magazine. This also happened with the shell deflector off.

Wow - that is strange, and frustrating, I’m sure!

Some have speculated that, in addition to the overgassing, the ejector and/or extractor come from the factory fouled with a lot of crud and metal chips. I would disassemble and clean mine, but with the dearth of spare parts, the springs might fly off, never to be seen again. Then of course, if you send it back to CZ for repairs, god knows when you’ll get it back.

[Aries144]

I'd also check the ejector plunger to make sure it moves freely when fully depressed and released.

Are the cases dribbling out or being flung out with force? Does the weapon run on the third, smallest, hole without a suppressor attached?

[Kedzie]

After 7 months of waiting, I just got fed up, asked CZ to return me my gun, bought the supporssor port drilling & heavier spring deal from HBI, went to the range, no more FTEs. 

Leave it to the third-party industry to do something right. 

[MeatAxe]

After 7 months of waiting, I just got fed up, asked CZ to return me my gun, bought the supporssor port drilling & heavier spring deal from HBI, went to the range, no more FTEs. 

Leave it to the third-party industry to do something right.

Glad that finally fixed it!

CZ is just sitting there with their thumb up their butt doing nothing.

[Archos]

I'd also check the ejector plunger to make sure it moves freely when fully depressed and released.

Are the cases dribbling out or being flung out with force? Does the weapon run on the third, smallest, hole without a suppressor attached?

This was done a long time ago. I was the user o  Arfcom that brought the issue of cleaning the ejector channel to light.

[Aries144]

ETA: Never mind. I reread your post and saw that the case was flipped 180. If the case is flipped 180 and on top of the mag, that sounds again like the ejector isn't getting the brass rotated out to the right fast enough before the bolt travels too far to the rear, which would suggest that 1. somehow the bolt velocity is too high again, 2. the ejector is not functioning properly again, or 3. just maybe the extractor is worn/broken to the point that it can let the case go too early and occasionally result in the case bouncing off the edge of the ejection port back into the receiver.

If it's been a while, I'd check the ejector channel again. If the ejector channel is out of spec/too large, more debris might have slipped in.

If it's not the ejector again, and barring somehow either the gas cylinder's gas port or the barrel's has somehow enlarged in 120 rounds, The only other thing I can think might possibly cause this is a broken/worn extractor.

[Gman86]

Is there still no response from CZ regarding the FTE Issues on the 7.62 version of the gun? I tried to get a third whole drilled on my gas regulator but nobody in my Area, is even brave enough to try.

1.1mm carbide drill bit a drill press and some water for cooling is all you need. Take your time and line it up right. Drill slowly.  Use a dremel to start a small dimple in the outer layer of the gas tube to get through the case hardening. After that its smooth sailing to a smooth shooting bren 2.