38 Special Personal Defense Ammo

[Rock-it3]

Anyone here carrying/using a 38 Special revolver for personal or home defense. Someone I know (older woman, first gun) is picking up a S&W Model 10-9 as a nightstand gun, and is looking for a good low-recoil load. I've seen the Luckygunner.com tests, https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/revolver-ballistics-test/, and watched some Paul Harrel on youtube. It seems like penetration is the key, because expansion of hollow points is not consistent, even at +P velocities. So, I am just looking for any input from people with experience in 38 Special loadings, and your thoughts on recoil, penetration and expansion, etc. Thanks in advance.

[f100owner]

The 38 special and it's cousin the 357 mag have putting away good and bad guys a lot longer than most of the 9mm and above handgun rounds. I am of the opinion that if one is shot once or twice with any major round, and the 38 is a major in my book, and they are not looking to get out of there other forces are at play.
I keep a s&w ultralight 38 special snubby in the door of my pickup and frequently pocket it when going into a store. There is an old 38 4 inch s&w in my desk in the living room for something to grab in a hurry. So I trust my life to a low round count revolver.
There is no thinking, just grab, point and squeeze the trigger.
Recoil won't be an issue when it counts. At least that is my mindset. Now the lightweight snubby is no fun to shoot at the range, but the rest of my 38s, with longer barrels and heavier frames absorb recoil pleasantly.
But if the experts have an issue with hollow point and soft point 38s not doing enough damage, then that is their issue. I am not worried.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[Hammer Time]

I would highly recommend taking a good look at the results on this chart:

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/revolver-ballistics-test/#38spl

[M1A4ME]

If I remember what I was reading 30+ years ago, the 158 grain lead hollow points where supposed to be pretty good loads for the .38's.

Not relying on expansion, the .38 special 148 grain was cutters ought to cut a mean hole in tissue.  Recoil wouldn't be bad either.

[SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM]

Anyone here carrying/using a 38 Special revolver for personal or home defense. Someone I know (older woman, first gun) is picking up a S&W Model 10-9 as a nightstand gun, and is looking for a good low-recoil load. I've seen the Luckygunner.com tests, https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/revolver-ballistics-test/, and watched some Paul Harrel on youtube. It seems like penetration is the key, because expansion of hollow points is not consistent, even at +P velocities. So, I am just looking for any input from people with experience in 38 Special loadings, and your thoughts on recoil, penetration and expansion, etc. Thanks in advance.

The .38 spl is a capable round to be sure. Being that this is your friends first gun I take that as she is not a proficient shooter. That being the situation she needs to practice and become proficient with the revolver and confident in her own ability to use it otherwise there is no "magic bullet" that will be of any use to her. After that shot placement is always the key.

[CCWLearner]

I keep the Hornady 110 gr FTX Critical Defense in my J-frame .38 as per the results on the Lucky Gunner tests.  I normally use a .380 ACP for pocket carry nowadays but my J-frame is still my backup.

Another strong contender that isn't on the Lucky Gunner chart is the Underwood 158 Grain Lead Semi-Wadcutter Hollow Point.  This is a modern version of the old "FBI load" that was more popular decades ago when cops carried revolvers.  I wouldn't recommend this to a female shooter, though, because the recoil is noticeably more than any other standard pressure .38 round I have fired through my revolver.  Although I am very confident in the lethal effects of these rounds, I prefer the Hornady Critical Defense for easier recoil management.

I'm pretty sure I have seen Paul Harrell test both of these on meat targets in one or another of his .38 for self-defense videos.

I also second that for an inexperienced female shooter, she really needs the range time, and may also need some larger and softer grips installed, to help master shooting a S&W revolver.  Between the DA trigger and the recoil on these guns, they are not easy to become proficient with, especially with that skinny wooden grip.  I run a Pachmayr Diamond Pro grip on mine, and it makes a huge difference in the shootability.  You can actually go to the range and have an enjoyable time shooting it.  It adds bulk which may hinder concealment, but for a nightstand gun I would strongly recommend it.

[Hammer Time]

Another strong contender that isn't on the Lucky Gunner chart is the Underwood 158 Grain Lead Semi-Wadcutter Hollow Point.  This is a modern version of the old "FBI load" that was more popular decades ago when cops carried revolvers....

Yup - that Underwood .38 load is awesome. When I carry my Colt King Cobra, that's what it's loaded with (the +P version).

[Wobbly]

I carry a late model J-frame daily.

• First thing to find out is the gun +P rated ? Should be marked on the barrel. Mine is, but not all Smith J-frames are. Unlike 357Mag, 38Spcl +P and 38Spcl will go into the same cylinder, but +P will really hurt an older J-frame not rated for it.

• Second thing, I'd fit the gun with a Crimson Trace laser aiming device. The bullet will go where the laser is. No more trying to aim in the dark or in dim lighting. And often times having the laser on the assailant is enough to deter the attack.

The .38 spl is a capable round to be sure. Being that this is your friends first gun I take that as she is not a proficient shooter. That being the situation she needs to practice and become proficient with the revolver and confident in her own ability to use it otherwise there is no "magic bullet" that will be of any use to her. After that shot placement is always the key.

• Exactly. Hand guns don't kill by knocking the assailant down. That's only on TV. They kill by ventilating the assailant until he looses blood or decides there are easier ways to make a living. That being said shot placement is key, and the key to shot placement in practice.


Tell us what the barrel says.   

[Ron M.]

2 loads I've found work well in any 38 Special and 357 revolver are Hornady 110 gr FTX Critical Defense standard velocity (no practical gain with +P) and Federal Premium Personal Defense Micro 38 Special +P 130 Grain HST. I've tested both rounds on trapped feral hogs, expand and penetrates consistently with good effect. Used my LCR 38 Special, Kimber K6s, 586, and Model 66.

If you want to step up and deal with HEAVY recoil from a 38 Special, Buffalo Bore's 158gr LSWCHP +P is really a 357 Magnum -P load. Hits hard, expands, and penetrates very deeply. I've killed several hogs and 2 Axis deer with this ammo. Most were from a 4 inch 586 or Model 66 the deer were from my Henry single shot 357, all inside 30 yards.

 A Surprising load that works well is the Buffalo Bore hard cast standard pressure 150gr Wadcutter. Cuts a deep straight hole through the biggest toughest hog, should be very effective for defensive use. Recoil is slightly heavier than the Critical Defense loading and about the same as the Federal Micro load.

[QuickDrawMcgraw]

I would highly recommend taking a good look at the results on this chart:

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/revolver-ballistics-test/#38spl

I used this chart and also this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgGjNQ_hhIQ

and chose Federal HST Micro 130gr 38 Special +P Ballistic Gel Test (HD).

Use this in a truck gun - EAA Windicator in 357 Magnum

Here is another video I found just now:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZsber37rKU

[Rock-it3]

The 38 special and it's cousin the 357 mag have putting away good and bad guys a lot longer than most of the 9mm and above handgun rounds. I am of the opinion that if one is shot once or twice with any major round, and the 38 is a major in my book, and they are not looking to get out of there other forces are at play.
I keep a s&w ultralight 38 special snubby in the door of my pickup and frequently pocket it when going into a store. There is an old 38 4 inch s&w in my desk in the living room for something to grab in a hurry. So I trust my life to a low round count revolver.
There is no thinking, just grab, point and squeeze the trigger.
Recoil won't be an issue when it counts. At least that is my mindset. Now the lightweight snubby is no fun to shoot at the range, but the rest of my 38s, with longer barrels and heavier frames absorb recoil pleasantly.
But if the experts have an issue with hollow point and soft point 38s not doing enough damage, then that is their issue. I am not worried.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Not having shot anyone with any caliber, I am more likely to trust others who have at least performed tests to determine projectile and load capabilities, rather than my own opinion.

[Rock-it3]

I would highly recommend taking a good look at the results on this chart:

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/revolver-ballistics-test/#38spl

thanks, yes, I have been looking at this. I actually referred to it in my OP

[Rock-it3]

If I remember what I was reading 30+ years ago, the 158 grain lead hollow points where supposed to be pretty good loads for the .38's.

Not relying on expansion, the .38 special 148 grain was cutters ought to cut a mean hole in tissue.  Recoil wouldn't be bad either.

Paul Harrel likes the 158 lead semi wadcutter hollow points. I like the idea of the heavy bullet.

[Rock-it3]

The .38 spl is a capable round to be sure. Being that this is your friends first gun I take that as she is not a proficient shooter. That being the situation she needs to practice and become proficient with the revolver and confident in her own ability to use it otherwise there is no "magic bullet" that will be of any use to her. After that shot placement is always the key.

Great advice. I intend to help her, and get her training.

[Rock-it3]

I carry a late model J-frame daily.

• First thing to find out is the gun +P rated ? Should be marked on the barrel. Mine is, but not all Smith J-frames are. Unlike 357Mag, 38Spcl +P and 38Spcl will go into the same cylinder, but +P will really hurt an older J-frame not rated for it.

• Second thing, I'd fit the gun with a Crimson Trace laser aiming device. The bullet will go where the laser is. No more trying to aim in the dark or in dim lighting. And often times having the laser on the assailant is enough to deter the attack.

The .38 spl is a capable round to be sure. Being that this is your friends first gun I take that as she is not a proficient shooter. That being the situation she needs to practice and become proficient with the revolver and confident in her own ability to use it otherwise there is no "magic bullet" that will be of any use to her. After that shot placement is always the key.

• Exactly. Hand guns don't kill by knocking the assailant down. That's only on TV. They kill by ventilating the assailant until he looses blood or decides there are easier ways to make a living. That being said shot placement is key, and the key to shot placement in practice.


Tell us what the barrel says.   

The Model 10-9 was made in 1987-88 I believe, and I read that from early 80's on they are all +P rated. I would prefer to stay with a standard pressure load, if possible.