PCR, Shadow 2 firing out of battery

[lyktorct]

 
    I have 2 Cajunized CZ's and am having issues, especially with the PCR firing out of battery resulting in squibs. This happened twice. The shot feels somewhat normal but the following round won't chamber, thank God. The case is blackened assuming from the blow back. The first squib could be seen at the edge of the lands, the second squib was about 1/4 inch further into the barrel. I'm thinking my reloads COL is a bit long at 1.12 and perhaps the reason the slide isn't going to battery. Regardless, the firearm should not fire in this condition. 124 gr Plated RN seated at 1.07 don't seem to have any issues. I'm using 4.8 gr CFE Pistol.
    The Shadow 2 will fire when I move the slide out of battery. I'm wondering if this is normal for the PCR and Shadow2, or the result of a Cajun GW upgrade.
    My satisfaction with the triggers on both is another story for another day.
     

[jurek]

Use branded ammo. Report when you still find the problem.

[lyktorct]

Please address the issue of firing out of battery. 

[jurek]

I'm not an expert of reloaded ammo, but sometimes 0.01 inch can make a difference. You can expect every type of malfunctions. I've seen many weird things which cannot be explained.
I do not see reason to diagnose firearms' issue without starting with easiest solutions - the ammo.

[George16]

What reloading machine are you using? How do you check to make sure each case has the correct amount of powder? Have you plunk test your rounds to make sure they chamber in your guns?

A squib is mostly caused by low or no powder charge. The blackening around the case mouth is usually caused by the primer flash.

By the way, do you have an extended firing pin installed on your shadow 2?

[SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM]

Please address the issue of firing out of battery.

There is nothing whatsoever wrong with those guns. The fault is in your reloads. CZ's have notoriously short chambers and all of us here understand that. As has been stated you need to plunk test your rounds and adjust your overall length accordingly. There is a wealth of info in the reloading section to help bring you up to speed on what you need to do going forward.

[terrapin]

You either have no powder or insufficient powder in your reloads.  Firing out of battery results in significant damage to the case, the gun and sometimes the person.  Squibs from little or no powder will lodge the bullet in the barrel.

You are lucky it lodged in the front of the chamber and prevented a subsequent round from chambering/ firing.


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[Earl Keese]

If the slide is out of battery, the hammer will fall but it doesn't come in contact with the firing pin. Your squibs are a different issue and are ammo related. More to the point, your problem is attributable to your reloading practices. I suggest reading the stickies at the top of the reloading forum, the answers are there for the reading. You will find plenty of help over there.

[lyktorct]

With a primed case in the chamber I can get it to fire with the slide moved ever so slightly rearward. Further rearward movement of the slide will allow the hammer to drop but the firing pin will not strike the primer.

I've experienced a squib in the past, not my reloads, and knew right away because of the reduced report and recoil.  That was not the case here.  Both times this occurred the shot sounded and felt normal.  In both instances the outside of the case, on one side, from mouth to base, was blackened.
I did a "plunk" test with both barrels and determined the COL with the bullet touching the lands then subtracting .015 from this figure to give me max COL for each CZ. The first time this happened I was using a single stage press, charging 50  cases at one time .  The cases were examined while in the block to  be sure they were charged but not double charged.   The second time this happened the bullet was loaded on a Lee Auto Breech lock Pro Progressive Press. The cases are charged manually using a Redding Competition power measure mounted near the press so the powder drop enters the expander die through a funnel to the case.  Before the bullet is manually placed on the case at the next stage, I visually confirm that the case is charged. The Redding powder dispenser was used exclusively. I double check the powder dispensed with an RCBS Triple Beam scale and rarely find it off more than a tenth of a grain. 

This has only happened with the PCR with COL loads at or near 1.10.......well below the max COL for the bullet used, which is an Everglades 124 gr Plated RN. 

I've been shooting all my life, US Army Pistol Team, Bullseye Comp, etc.   Started reloading rifle wildcat loads about 4 years ago; handgun ammo about a year.  My confidence has been shaken.  I don't know how I could be more careful than I am.

[SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM]

I've been shooting all my life too and handloading for 31 years now. I've owned many CZ's over the years including my PCR which has been modded with CGW parts and currently has north of 14,000 rounds fired. I learned about the short CZ chamber 22 years ago when I found the rounds I loaded for my 3rd gen S&W pistols were unsafe for use in my newly discovered CZ's. I made the appropriate adjustments then and have never had another issue.
You simply need to examine your loading practices and you need to inspect the bullets you are buying and be sure the ogive isn't too wide for the CZ chamber. The cast bullets I used many years ago for S&W and other guns had far to wide an ogive and could never be safely/properly seated for use in any CZ chamber.
For your own peace of mind you should purchase a few boxes of factory new ammo and fire the guns with that and you will see the guns are not the issue.

[Earl Keese]

It's normal for a squib case to have blackening, there isn't enough pressure to expand the case and seal it to the chamber.

[reshp1]

With a primed case in the chamber I can get it to fire with the slide moved ever so slightly rearward.

This is normal and safe. The barrel and slide are locked for the first few millimeters of travel before the frame grabs the barrel at the chamber end and pulls it down. The disconnect mechanism in CZs and basically any pistol needs more travel than that to work. There's a nub on the trigger bar that corresponds to a cut out in the slide and the slide needs to move enough so the nub is out of the cutout and forced downward, which disengages it from the sear.

I agree with everyone else there's something off with your reloading setup.

[lyktorct]

Thanks for all the comments and suggestions regarding issues with my 9mm reloads/squibs.  Since the original post I've had 3 or 4 more but now I'm pretty sure I know the reason and it has nothing to do with reloading technique, or maybe it does. I was checking the powder charges in cases last week when I noticed something shiny; something didn't look right.  I emptied the case and low and behold 2 SS pins were lodged in the flash hole of THE PRIMED CASE. I wet tumble with SS pins to clean my brass and it does a great job. Occasionally I would find pins lodged in the flash hole of rifle brass but have never found pins in pistol brass until now.  After one of my "misfires" resulting in a squib at the range, the RO noticed some unburned powder on the bench and speculated I might have contaminated powder.  Another time,  after removing a squib with a wooden dowel,  I notice the barrel was loaded  with powder residue, unlike a barrel would look after a normal firing.  So,  I think my "misfires" were  caused by incomplete ignition of the powder charge due to SS pins in the flash hole..  I just read a thread regarding SS pins getting lodged in flash holes posted a few months ago on this forum.   I will be more careful checking brass for lodged pins in the future....

[Earl Keese]

Thanks for the update. If you've had "3 or 4" more squibs, you need to stop shooting your reloads and pull what you have on the shelf for disassembly. IMO, you seem to be very nonchalant about a potentially very dangerous situation. SS pins remaining in your prepped cases has EVERYTHING to do with your process.

[SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM]

Earl is right it's on you to check your work at each stage so it is your technique. Whether you dry tumble which is my method or wet tumble as you say you do you need to be sure your cases are clear of ANY foreign material before the charging process begins.