Author Topic: Choosing the Right Optics Ready Pistol for Duty and Competition  (Read 5898 times)

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Offline Hammer Time

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Re: Choosing the Right Optics Ready Pistol for Duty and Competition
« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2020, 09:41:10 AM »
I'd go with the P-10F out of all those options.

The FN would also be high on my list, except I can't stand hinged triggers.

Sights don't 'need' to be co-witnessed with a red dot on a pistol. In fact, I would discourage it.

Offline Kayin

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Re: Choosing the Right Optics Ready Pistol for Duty and Competition
« Reply #16 on: October 10, 2020, 01:25:47 PM »
I'd go with the P-10F out of all those options.

The FN would also be high on my list, except I can't stand hinged triggers.

Sights don't 'need' to be co-witnessed with a red dot on a pistol. In fact, I would discourage it.

I wouldn't necessarily want a co-witness right out the gate, I'd actually prefer to use normal sights with an optic mounted and obviously learn to shoot with an optic first.  However, I still want to have the option to try out both.  My main concern is investing into a platform that won't allow for co-witness options at all.

Offline Hammer Time

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Re: Choosing the Right Optics Ready Pistol for Duty and Competition
« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2020, 02:03:50 PM »
I'd go with the P-10F out of all those options.

The FN would also be high on my list, except I can't stand hinged triggers.

Sights don't 'need' to be co-witnessed with a red dot on a pistol. In fact, I would discourage it.

I wouldn't necessarily want a co-witness right out the gate, I'd actually prefer to use normal sights with an optic mounted and obviously learn to shoot with an optic first.  However, I still want to have the option to try out both.  My main concern is investing into a platform that won't allow for co-witness options at all.


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Re: Choosing the Right Optics Ready Pistol for Duty and Competition
« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2020, 02:29:21 PM »
On a competition guns I have super light triggers which are a no go for a duty pistol.
I would say P10F and Glock Gen 5 would be my choice for a full size duty pistol. I sold sig320 but I think the recoil was a little stronger in sig than in Glock or P10C.

Offline puddintame

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Re: Choosing the Right Optics Ready Pistol for Duty and Competition
« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2020, 08:16:50 PM »
i might try my first local steel steel match with this at the end of the month


Offline Kayin

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Re: Choosing the Right Optics Ready Pistol for Duty and Competition
« Reply #20 on: October 11, 2020, 09:29:53 PM »
Gonna add some potential milling/rear dovetail plate options.  For weight purposes I really only have two choices for CZ - the SP-01 Phantom, or the Tristar T-120 (a CZ clone).  I'm not including the CZ P-09 because I'm not a fan of the grip and the two guns I'm looking at have magazine compatibility with my P-01 (although the 15 rounders won't fit in the longer grips.)

Mill/Dovetail Option 1: Tristar T120



Pros:

1) Full-size CZ clone that is well made for the money spent.
2) Aluminum Alloy Frame
3) Full rails because of the metal frame
4) Should be compatible with nearly all CZ grips.
5) Has many interchangeable CZ parts.
6) Should be compatible with CZ-75 sights with some minor fitting.
7) Weight around 30 ounces
8 ) Can be almost half the cost of a Phantom

Cons:

1) Currently difficult to find.
2) Stock sights are terrible.
3) One complaint is that sights are often off and need adjusting.
4) Different slide from normal CZ-75s, less ideal dovetail plate options
5) Manual safety instead of decocker.
6) CZ has better customer service.
7) Small aftermarket, less holster options.
8 ) No front cocking serrations.

Mill/Dovetail Option 2: CZ-75 SP-01 Phantom



Pros:

1) Classic CZ-75 grip.
2) Very reliable.
3) Comes with a decocker.
4) Uses normal CZ-75 sights.
5) Full-length picatinny rail.
6) Can fit holsters designed for the standard SP-01 metal variants.
7) Weight around 29 ounces.

Cons:

1) Discontinued and hard to find.
2) Very expensive.
3) Terrible factory sights.
4) Decocker lever is plastic and feels cheap.
5) Doesn't use interchangeable grip panels.
6) Only two back panels to change grip, doesn't make a huge difference.
7) Not designed from the ground up to work with a polymer frame.  Adds more recoil to back of the gun.
8 ) No front cocking serrations.
9) Won't fit all SP-01 holsters due to polymer frame being thicker.

For a project gun that may get milled, I'd definitely prefer the Tristar T-120.  My local gun store has had an SP-01 for months and can't seem to sell it (they refuse to let it go below $700) so I'm to look at it again and compare it to the slide of a normal CZ-75 and see if the rear-dovetail plate has all the options I'm looking for.  I like Vinny's idea with the JPoint and Deltapoint Pro plate that hugs the CZ rail very close to the slide for minimal lift.  Doing this could make the Phantom a more attractive option despite how expensive it is.  However, if milling is the better option than I think the Tristar will be better since milling it and maybe even giving it a basic trigger job or new sights will cost less than the Phantom.

Another concern with the Phantom is that it wasn't designed to work with a polymer frame from the ground up like the P-07 and the P-09, so I've heard it doesn't have a full internal rail for it to ride on like normal CZ-75s and thus produces more recoil to the back of the gun.  I've read there are better springs to use that will reduce that recoil, but I'm not sure if there are heavier guide rod options to help balance it more in the front.

What do you all think?

Offline Earl Keese

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Re: Choosing the Right Optics Ready Pistol for Duty and Competition
« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2020, 06:59:13 AM »
 There are plenty of people that say the Phantom is a soft shooting pistol. Don't get too wrapped up in other people's opinions on recoil, it's very much an issue of perception and most everyone feels it differently.
 •One benefit of the Phantom is that the rear of the slide is wider than a std 75B, so there is enough material there to mount an RMR or Holosun without an adapter. Primary Machine offers milling for them, Bruce recently built a beautiful Phantom.
  •Before you choose a clone, be sure someone out there offers milling for that model. It's not as simple as picking a machine shop and sending it in. For sure, you don't want your gun to be a practice case.
 •Dovetail plates suck. If you aren't committed to red dots, I think you're better off with an optic ready platform vs. milling.
 •Front serrations aren't necessary with a red dot site mounted. You'll likely use the red dot for racking/press checks.

Offline Claymore504

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Re: Choosing the Right Optics Ready Pistol for Duty and Competition
« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2020, 08:19:30 AM »
For striker fired duty I would go with the M&P M2.0 Optics Ready LE only model in the ling below. My second choice would be the P10F.

https://www.smith-wesson.com/firearms/mp-9-m20-optics-ready-law-enforcement-only

However, I prefer DA/SA so I would go with the LTT Elite RDO!!!

https://www.langdontactical.com/92-elite-ltt-with-rdo-slide/

I've seen the Landon Tactical setups and I'm wondering if they'd do the millwork on a Beretta clone like the Girsan Regard Gen 4 (this model is the only one with a front sight that can be changed).  By all accounts a good clone that would cost a good $200-$300 less than the Beretta.
They only work on Beretta. If you are serious about a duty pistol, I would very highly suggest you go with an LTT Elite. They are perfect. Also, if you are truly looking for a duty handgun for use as LE, then I would consider how hard it will be to find a duty holster.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2020, 08:23:51 AM by Claymore504 »

Offline Kayin

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Re: Choosing the Right Optics Ready Pistol for Duty and Competition
« Reply #23 on: October 12, 2020, 10:35:56 AM »
For striker fired duty I would go with the M&P M2.0 Optics Ready LE only model in the ling below. My second choice would be the P10F.

https://www.smith-wesson.com/firearms/mp-9-m20-optics-ready-law-enforcement-only

However, I prefer DA/SA so I would go with the LTT Elite RDO!!!

https://www.langdontactical.com/92-elite-ltt-with-rdo-slide/

I've seen the Landon Tactical setups and I'm wondering if they'd do the millwork on a Beretta clone like the Girsan Regard Gen 4 (this model is the only one with a front sight that can be changed).  By all accounts a good clone that would cost a good $200-$300 less than the Beretta.
They only work on Beretta. If you are serious about a duty pistol, I would very highly suggest you go with an LTT Elite. They are perfect. Also, if you are truly looking for a duty handgun for use as LE, then I would consider how hard it will be to find a duty holster.


I'm most certainly not LE, but a pistol with holsters that have extra retention mechanisms would be nice (although I definitely don't need something that's level 2 or 3 - just something that hopefully slows down a crazy nut from grabbing my gun out too easily like regular kydex holsters will do.)

This isn't a huge requirement though and is mostly a bonus as I don't live in a state that allows open carry anyway.  Glock is the clear winner when it comes to LE and military gear but CZ also has similar options (there are duty holsters available from overseas companies in Europe for example.)

Offline recoilguy

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Re: Choosing the Right Optics Ready Pistol for Duty and Competition
« Reply #24 on: October 12, 2020, 05:28:39 PM »
In full disclosure I did not read this entire thread.

I say a gun has to be fun to shoot more than fit your hand or have options. If you have a gun that is not fun to shoot......you don't shoot it
If you don't shoot it you never get good with it. Or at least not better with it.
I like a few of the guns on your list and I do not like a one of the others and some I just have no experience with so I can have no valid opinion on them. If I was going to get my first optic ready gun to shoot and for duty and competition I would go with the Canik TP9FS. I have shot this gun and watched others shoot it and your list of pros and cons on this gun and really on most of the guns listed seems different then my list would be.
I don't have to ever use a duty gun and I love to compete so my perspective is different. The Canik in my experience and my opinion is inexpensive so if you want to upgrade later you can keep it and not be out much or sell it and recoup a better percentage, if you are a seller of guns to get new ones. It is also proven to me and the few of my colleagues who own and shoot them to be very reliable and surprisingly accurate. The cost of mags is inconsequential to me as you normally are only buy 3 or 4 more and that just doesn't add up to enough to make a difference. The Canik is versatile and reliable. co witness just messes with my ability to shot correctly. but others rate it almost a deal breaker. I know I don't care about it.

I have shot or own 5 of the guns on your list. Your 2 newest options seem like you are just adding guns to a list that is already complete to me. I do not like the CZ phantom and never have. The tristar is a nice gun for what it is but I wouldn't put money into it when there are already good options out there that are proven and accessible. The T120 as is is a fine little weapon, making it into something else seems like something I would not do. The Glock the m&P the 320 all real good weapons and wit the right work and sights just very good to shoot. I have a 320 I hate shooting it but its a nice gun that I never shoot. My brotherinlaw has both the M&P performance and the Glock with Leopold optics and both are a blast to shoot. The Canik comes along every time even when I am practicing with my Limited gun. or when I am taking range day with my carry gun.

Sorry for the long babble. You seem to have researched this a lot. I find that a hindrance to many more than a help. research is mostly gathering opinion....shooting is gathering fact. someone you know has probably got one or more of these guns and most shooters will always let you run a few bullets through their gun if you ask them.

Good Luck

RCG 
Its easy being a communist in a free country
What's hard is to be free in a communist country

Offline Kayin

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Re: Choosing the Right Optics Ready Pistol for Duty and Competition
« Reply #25 on: October 12, 2020, 05:57:22 PM »
My optics ready list is pretty much down to the P10F, P320 and the Canik TP9SFX.  The FN is too expensive and just not my cup of tea.  The M&P is good but nothing special, same with the Glock (and I'm thinking it's better to wait and see what Palmetto State armory is going to do with the Dagger and future versions that will be Glock 17 in size or bigger).  The Masada will be good to keep an eye on for later, but it's too new right now.

I really do hope the Canik line gets updated to the METE for US markets, I know I'll be annoyed if I buy the current models and find out they're shipping the newer ones a few months later.  I've shot the P10C but not the F, so I'm going to look for that and the P320 (preferably the optics models) for rentals and see how they shoot.  If I can find the TP9 that'd be awesome, but I've never seen one for renting.

Offline ViperM

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Re: Choosing the Right Optics Ready Pistol for Duty and Competition
« Reply #26 on: October 13, 2020, 10:04:03 AM »
For striker fired duty I would go with the M&P M2.0 Optics Ready LE only model in the ling below. My second choice would be the P10F.

https://www.smith-wesson.com/firearms/mp-9-m20-optics-ready-law-enforcement-only

However, I prefer DA/SA so I would go with the LTT Elite RDO!!!

https://www.langdontactical.com/92-elite-ltt-with-rdo-slide/

I've seen the Landon Tactical setups and I'm wondering if they'd do the millwork on a Beretta clone like the Girsan Regard Gen 4 (this model is the only one with a front sight that can be changed).  By all accounts a good clone that would cost a good $200-$300 less than the Beretta.
The Langdon milling for the red dots is only for a Vertec  slide.  Those slides have dovetailed front and rear sights.  Langdon had to manufacture parts for the conversion so it's currently limited to a Vertec slide.

Offline dwcopple

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Re: Choosing the Right Optics Ready Pistol for Duty and Competition
« Reply #27 on: October 19, 2020, 08:11:36 AM »


Stoeger STR-9 is optics ready now.  Internals are Glock.  Ergos are fantastic.  Benelli/Beretta customer service is good.  comes with 3 mags if you can find one in stock. 

Offline Kayin

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Re: Choosing the Right Optics Ready Pistol for Duty and Competition
« Reply #28 on: October 21, 2020, 08:30:06 AM »


Stoeger STR-9 is optics ready now.  Internals are Glock.  Ergos are fantastic.  Benelli/Beretta customer service is good.  comes with 3 mags if you can find one in stock.

The STR-9 is definitely affordable, but it's been shown to have reliability issues.  I'm sure I could buy one that runs fine, but I think the chance of getting a gun with feeding issues is higher than other cheap pistols (Taurus, Canik, etc).  It's also Glock 19 size which I don't need.

Offline Kayin

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Re: Choosing the Right Optics Ready Pistol for Duty and Competition
« Reply #29 on: October 28, 2020, 09:03:03 PM »
 :DAND THE WINNER IS....THE CZ P10F OR! :D



Found a good deal on one and feels good in my hand (plus I plan on getting a C someday and doing some slide/grip swapping).  I also like that it's relatively ready for an optic (outside the plate) and won't require immediate upgrades like a Glock will.  I'll be moving on to other forums/topics for the plate and optic options, but again, feel free to use the info supplied here for these firearms.  Thanks for everyone's options and suggestions!