Author Topic: How to Tune, Smooth and Upgrade the P-10 (Discussion)  (Read 1011 times)

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Offline Earl Keese

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How to Tune, Smooth and Upgrade the P-10 (Discussion)
« on: October 18, 2020, 10:33:17 PM »
 At the urging of the illustrious Mr.Wobbly, I've decided to try and put together a thread dedicated to improving/refining our favorite striker fired CZ pistol platform. It's only fitting since I owe my status as a P10 owner to the generosity of this forum(Christmas Drawing 2017).
 My plan is to separate this post into several categories, and include links to previous threads and a list of parts providers.  Any thoughts or suggestions from other P10 users are appreciated. Please be patient, as this is a work in progress  :)
 • Models/Submodels:
 P-10 F (FDE, OD Green, Urban Gray, Suppresor Ready, Optic Ready)
 P-10 C (FDE, Urban Gray, Suppressor Ready, Optic Ready)
P-10 S (Optic Ready)
P-10 SC (Semi Compact not avail in U.S.A.)
P-10 M (Single stack not avail in U.S.A.)

 • Action Improvement/Tuning:



 • Available Aftermarket Parts/Vendors:
https://www.apextactical.com/blog/tag/p10c/

https://cajungunworks.com/

https://czcustom.com/

https://hbindustries.net/store/product-category/cz-usa/cz-p10-products/

https://killer-innovations.com/shop/velocity-czp10-trigger/

https://overwatchprecision.com/store/cz/

https://primarymachine.com/products/cz-p-10-parts-accessories/

 •Reported Issues/Solutions:
Guiderod misalignment:
https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=112934.0
Slide stuck upon disassembly:
https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=91746.0

 •Iron Sights/Optic Milling:

 • Magazines/Extensions:
https://hyve-technologies.com/product-category/cz-parts/


https://shieldarms.com/pistol-magazine-extensions

« Last Edit: November 05, 2020, 09:57:46 PM by Earl Keese »

Offline Hammer Time

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Re: How to Tune, Smooth and Upgrade the P-10 (Discussion)
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2020, 10:35:22 PM »
Looking forward to this, Earl. Thanks for making it happen.

Online Joe L

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Re: How to Tune, Smooth and Upgrade the P-10 (Discussion)
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2020, 08:27:35 AM »
Here is a link to EarlAn357's disassembly/reassembly video from 2017.  I still use it as a reference. 

There are other excellent P-10 videos on EarlAn357's YouTube channel. 
Joe
CZ-75B 9mm and Kadet, 97B"E", two P-09's, P-07, P-10C, P-10F

Online Joe L

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Some advice to folks who want to modify their P-10
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2020, 09:30:30 AM »
I love the P-10 series of pistols and have three of them myself.  They are very different from the hammer fired guns and, having never owned a Glock, they were all new to me. 

However, there are characteristics from a general firearm safety standpoint that, unfortunately, I failed to take in to account when modifying my P-10's.  I want to bring these up in this thread to help others avoid the problem that I created for myself, and have since addressed without incident. 

I learned nearly 10 years ago NOT to modify the CZ hammer gun's factory hammer or sear.  This applied to the 75B, 97B, and P-09/07 series.  I created a machine gun doing that, thus my "best tools for CZ are a credit card and cell phone" philosophy.  That was humorous but I am serious--it is too easy to mess up the timing and reliability features in the design if one just starts filing and polishing extensively.  I found out first hand that the CZ design is not as forgiving as a 1911 or even a P-226 SIG.   We are much better off from a safety and reliability standpoint to buy proven aftermarket parts (my choice is CGW) and NOT MODIFY THEM. 

I extend that recommendation to the P-10 platform as well.  I'm not talking about a 2 second touch of Flitz on a soft wheel like Earl shows in the video above--that isn't going to change the geometry.  I'm talking about stoning the trigger bar or disconnector or striker contact points.  That much material removal can change the geometry and result in the striker/trigger bar contact area reduction and/or change the angle(s) such that the striker can slide off the trigger bar and cause an unintended discharge (aka AD or double).  This happened to me recently with my P-10S when I slingshot loaded the first round of a fresh magazine and the gun went off as the barrel went in to battery.  Surprised me.  Gun was aimed at the target, so all OK, at the range.  I was able to duplicate the incident at home with an unloaded gun, maybe 1 time in 5 trials, not good.  Apparently, I had gone too far to try to get the perfect trigger. 

So I changed the striker and cleaned the gun to make sure the trigger bar was going moving freely over its full range of motion and tried to duplicate the problem at home again.  Problem solved.  Then I went to the range and shot 50 rounds, loaded mostly one at a time, trying to separate the trigger bar and striker using as rough handling as I could while keeping the gun aimed safely in to the berm.  Hit the gun from the bottom, the top, the side, slingshot load, slide release load, everything.  All good. 

So, my recommendation for the P-10 series--don't file or stone any of the critical contact points, especially the trigger bar/striker interface, keep the gun clean, and rigorously safety check the gun unloaded on the bench, and then again at the range with live ammo away from others and near a berm after changing out any parts or doing even some very, very, light polishing. 

Be cautious, be very conservative in what you do, buy good parts, and, most important of all, be safe FIRST, then enjoy your modified firearm.

My P-10F and P-10C will get the same rough treatment next week before I make any 100 yard videos, that's for sure.  And I'll probably need to get out the credit card and cell phone tools, yet once again. 

Joe
CZ-75B 9mm and Kadet, 97B"E", two P-09's, P-07, P-10C, P-10F

Offline De-der

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Re: How to Tune, Smooth and Upgrade the P-10 (Discussion)
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2020, 07:53:10 PM »
Well, I've looked into the forum from time to time over the last year or so but
got kind of side tracked a year or so ago with Sig's P365..then the 365XL
then an M&P compact, put a CGW kit in my P10C, red dots on my P10C, Xl
and M&P, not to mention the whole china virus problem along with the ammo
shortage :o, still got enough ammo to shoot a little every week and took the
P10C off the night stand to realize, I shoot it better than anything else!
As they say the timer and target don't lie, so cooler weather's here, the
365XL is in the safe, M&P on the night stand and my P10C with a Holosun 507C
in my JMCK 2.0 appendix daily.
It made my day to see this thread, I've been lucky enough to learn a lot here
in the past and look forward to see what I've missed and further my CZ education!
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Offline Earl Keese

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Re: How to Tune, Smooth and Upgrade the P-10 (Discussion)
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2020, 08:18:52 PM »
Just checking in to say, I haven't forgotten about this. I've been pretty busy since I made the initial post. I've made some organizational notes will update soon. Any suggestions or favorite links like posted by Joe L are welcome, encouraged, and appreciated. Thanks everyone.

Offline Jrcnky

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Re: How to Tune, Smooth and Upgrade the P-10 (Discussion)
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2020, 06:09:45 PM »
Glad I found this thread. I purchased a 10f OR A while back and have decided to replace my canik sfx for carry optics eventually. Mainly want to change because I'm bored with canik which i have loved by the way.  Heres two things I would like help with snd\or am fiddling with.

1. Trigger pull weight.  I have done your light polish.  Changed to overwatch striker. Using hbi trigger and reduced striker spring.  Sitting at about 4.5 lbs.  Would like to get to 4 or a little lighter. Any suggestions.

2. Frame weight.  Bought some tungsten pinecar weight to add to medium bsckstrap.  Will report back on hoe that goes.

3. Palm swell.  Large backstrap doesn't feel natural.  Medium is great but overall feels thin.  Any ideas on adding s bit of a palm swell without reducing the beavertail like it looks like the houge grips do?

Again this id going to be strictly a range, competition gun if I can get trigger Weight where i like.  That wall is what gets me.

Online Joe L

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Re: How to Tune, Smooth and Upgrade the P-10 (Discussion)
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2020, 08:34:39 PM »
Jrcnky--I use Sugru to build up the polymer gun grips to get a shape I like.  It sticks well and is not slick like JB Weld is.  I made a YouTube video showing some of the grip shape changes that I've made.  Skip the JB Weld and just use Sugru on the frame.  JB Weld works great on the triggers of the P-09/07 to increase the reach, however. 



Edit to add--I found the video of the modifications specifically for the P-10C, applicable to the P-10F.  This is extreme and ugly, but reversible, actually, and so far hasn't come loose or been a problem in the field.  Lots of negative comments from purists who can't stand the thought of modifying a plastic gun frame, unless its a Glock, I guess.  Consider this a mock up used to determine the optimum shape of the grip needed for me to be able to grip the gun and pull the trigger without moving the gun.  It's the "without moving the gun" part that the purists won't consider if it means modifying the gun extensively.  Try shooting bullseye with a gun that doesn't fit your hand perfectly.  I know what I need to do to make the gun right FOR ME, even if it is ugly. 



Joe
« Last Edit: November 06, 2020, 06:07:47 AM by Joe L, Reason: added link to P-10C specific video »
CZ-75B 9mm and Kadet, 97B"E", two P-09's, P-07, P-10C, P-10F

Offline Earl Keese

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Re: How to Tune, Smooth and Upgrade the P-10 (Discussion)
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2020, 09:54:34 PM »
Jrcnky- Last time I checked, my trigger pull was 3.5lbs with a Cajun 10320(NLA) striker and HBI striker spring(heavier of the two from their set). I load match ammo with Fed primers and EDC with Fed HST, so light strikes haven't been an issue. Maybe do a little more polishing?
I prefer the large backstrap, but it changes the grip angle enough that the gun no longer points well for me. With the small backstrap, the grip angle is good, but the grip is too small for my hands, same with the medium. I recently bought the P10 specific Hogue Handall and like it a lot. Installed over the small backstrap for me feels just about right- lots of palm swell. The additional thickness under the beavertail actually helps the gun point naturally for me. My pistol is a C, not an F, so your results may vary from mine. I wear a 2xl glove.

Offline Jrcnky

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Re: How to Tune, Smooth and Upgrade the P-10 (Discussion)
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2020, 04:10:03 PM »
Took it apart today at lunch at hit some parts with some 2k grit sandpaper and then quick polish. Sitting at 3.5#. I'm good with that right now.  Surprised there aren't any aftermarket trigger springs yet. Aprt from that I don't want to do much more polishing.

Tomorrow I get weights im hoping to put in backstrap.  Will update once in. 

Regarding that palm swell material mentioned above.  Is that able to be molded before setting and then sanded once set?  If i were to do something similar im thinking I'd just go with a forming apoxie putty then silicon carbine over it and rest of grip.  Not sold on that yet.

Also, this gun doesn't seem to like federal synthetic 150.  Lots of jams.  Does better it seems with lighter weight for me.    I don't reload.  Did better when I removed the shield arms extended base plate.  Didn't have much luck with those so removed them.

Thsnks for the replies everyone!

Offline Jrcnky

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Re: How to Tune, Smooth and Upgrade the P-10 (Discussion)
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2020, 05:47:28 PM »
added close to 3 oz using some pinewood derby weights. backstraps have enough room for quite a few. pretty painless way to add some frame weight.

Offline P35guy

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Re: How to Tune, Smooth and Upgrade the P-10 (Discussion)
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2020, 11:22:24 AM »
I'm going to mark this post.  Just got a P10c.  haven't had time to pull it down yet but this post will be helpful

Offline De-der

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Re: How to Tune, Smooth and Upgrade the P-10 (Discussion)
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2020, 06:28:57 AM »
I've got an early model P10C with a full CGW kit (10300 striker)
running a 3.5lb HBI spring and the trigger pull is a little under 5lb,
the trigger is smooth, beautiful wall and quick reset, I'd just like to
get a little lighter break at the wall, maybe 4.5 or so, do you think
polishing the 10300 could get me there ?
Seem I've read post's, maybe Earlan's that polishing tooled steel
strikers didn't yield much improvement.
I ordered an Apex mag release but received one for a late model,
correct part should arrive this week.
Input's much appreciated!
 
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Offline Jrcnky

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Re: How to Tune, Smooth and Upgrade the P-10 (Discussion)
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2020, 03:13:49 PM »
I've got an early model P10C with a full CGW kit (10300 striker)
running a 3.5lb HBI spring and the trigger pull is a little under 5lb,
the trigger is smooth, beautiful wall and quick reset, I'd just like to
get a little lighter break at the wall, maybe 4.5 or so, do you think
polishing the 10300 could get me there ?
Seem I've read post's, maybe Earlan's that polishing tooled steel
strikers didn't yield much improvement.
I ordered an Apex mag release but received one for a late model,
correct part should arrive this week.
Input's much appreciated!

Are you comfortable taking it down? If so a polish or some 2k sandpaper can get you where you want to be.  You can polish the hook of striker but that alone won't make a huge difference.  I noticed a change in lighter break using the overwatch striker.  With that and a polish of internals I'm at 3.5#

Offline Earl Keese

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Re: How to Tune, Smooth and Upgrade the P-10 (Discussion)
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2020, 09:12:47 PM »
I've got an early model P10C with a full CGW kit (10300 striker)
running a 3.5lb HBI spring and the trigger pull is a little under 5lb,
the trigger is smooth, beautiful wall and quick reset, I'd just like to
get a little lighter break at the wall, maybe 4.5 or so, do you think
polishing the 10300 could get me there ?
Seem I've read post's, maybe Earlan's that polishing tooled steel
strikers didn't yield much improvement.
I ordered an Apex mag release but received one for a late model,
correct part should arrive this week.
Input's much appreciated!
I didn't see an improvement when I polished the 10030 striker. How many rounds do you have with this combo? Any previous polishing?