Author Topic: New P10F failing to feed  (Read 1829 times)

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Offline dehughes

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New P10F failing to feed
« on: October 25, 2020, 05:03:16 PM »
Hello all,

Brand new gun, purchased a couple weeks ago via a blue label deal.  Shot it for the first time yesterday, and this same FTF malfunction manifested a couple times when loading a full 19rd mag into the gun.  Slide locked back, full 19rd mag inserted, released slide using the slide lock lever, and the first round would 50% of the time have its nose run straight into the bottom of the feed ramp on the barrel chamber, locking the slide up. 

Fix was to lock the slide back open, strip the mag, reset that round in the mag, and try again.  Checked the internet and saw this was a deal with some P10C and P10F pistols.

When shooting, the gun never had issue feeding rounds, oddly.

Much like the slide lock spring issue (addressed this on a separate thread), this issue may prove to be a deal-breaker for me unless it gets ironed out.  Other than these two problems, I REALLY like this pistol, so I'd love to get it ironed out. 

Anyone here have a recommendation for a fix for this?  Thanks in advance.

Offline Joe L

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Re: New P10F failing to feed
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2020, 05:48:31 PM »
What bullet?  1st round of fully loaded magazine or will it do this with 18 in the magazine?  Or maybe 10?
Joe
CZ-75B 9mm and Kadet, 97B"E", two P-09's, P-07, P-10C, P-10F

Offline dehughes

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Re: New P10F failing to feed
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2020, 06:27:19 PM »
Sorry...malfunction happened with both 115gr Blazer Brass FMJ, and 115gr Winchester White Box FMJ.  Didn't try with 18 in the mag...didn't even think of that...but I did try it with both included mags (same results), AND, I did try it with 4 rounds in each mag, and the malfunction didn't manifest then with either mag loaded with 4 rounds.  Interesting. 

Regardless, I expect it to work with 19 in the mag...but perhaps it is a mag issue, as I DID observe the angle of the cartridges seemed to change/reduce with subsequent bullets added to the mags.  That is, with one round in, the cartridge seemed to "stick up" significantly more than the 19th round did when fully loaded. 

Hmm...wonder if it's a mag spring break-in issue?  Any and all suggestions are welcome.  Thanks!

Offline Grendel

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Re: New P10F failing to feed
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2020, 06:49:11 PM »
Are the mag tubes clean inside? Disassemble them, clean the inside thoroughly, inspect the followers and tubes for burrs. Polish the inside with a car polish or silicon rag. Put them back together, making sure the springs are the right way around. Don't oil them. It attracts dirt and grit.
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Offline dehughes

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Re: New P10F failing to feed
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2020, 07:17:57 PM »
Are the mag tubes clean inside? Disassemble them, clean the inside thoroughly, inspect the followers and tubes for burrs. Polish the inside with a car polish or silicon rag. Put them back together, making sure the springs are the right way around. Don't oil them. It attracts dirt and grit.

I haven't checked the mags, but other than the perceived change in the angle of the top cartridge as the mags became progressively more loaded, nothing seemed amiss.  I wager they were clean, as the pistol and two mags were purchased brand new from a dealer, but it's something to check off the list to be sure.

I'll disassemble, inspect, and clean them tonight.  Thanks.  I have range days tomorrow and Tuesday so I should be able to put some rounds through it then. 

Offline Iron Giant

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Re: New P10F failing to feed
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2020, 07:34:56 PM »
Two things to try:

While observing all good safety practices, try inserting a full mag and SLAMMING it home. Your slide may automatically close (auto-forward) on the fresh mag while stripping that 19th round. It's my understanding it wasn't necessarily designed to do that (Thanks Grendel for the clarification!), some pistols do, and others do not. My P10F does.

Second, after inserting a full mag (not so forcefully that it auto closes), instead of using the slide stop (notice the choice of wording there...), rack the slide HARD. Pull all the way back and let her rip. Should feed normally.

If no to both of those, then there may be an actual issue with the mag/ammo/slide-stop.

« Last Edit: October 25, 2020, 08:04:03 PM by Iron Giant »

Offline Grendel

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Re: New P10F failing to feed
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2020, 07:54:20 PM »
.  I wager they were clean, as the pistol and two mags were purchased brand new from a dealer, but it's something to check off the list to be sure.

I'll disassemble, inspect, and clean them tonight.  Thanks.  I have range days tomorrow and Tuesday so I should be able to put some rounds through it then.

Pistols are never cleaned prior to being shipped to a dealer. First order of business with a new firearm is filed strip and clean, including the mags. CZs are infamous for being gunked up when new, especially if they've been sitting a while.

As to the advice above, no CZ is designed to auto-forward the slide upon insertion of the mag. Some do it, some don't. Some people like it, some people do not.
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Offline Iron Giant

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Re: New P10F failing to feed
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2020, 08:01:43 PM »
As to the advice above, no CZ is designed to auto-forward the slide upon insertion of the mag. Some do it, some don't. Some people like it, some people do not.

Good to know. Was shooting with someone at Gunsite last month who has some extensive contact with CZ Custom, and he mentioned that it had been intentionally designed in. He was also a few beverages in at dinner that night, so may very well be #FakeNews  ;D, but I like that mine does it.

Offline Grendel

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Re: New P10F failing to feed
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2020, 08:09:35 PM »
As to the advice above, no CZ is designed to auto-forward the slide upon insertion of the mag. Some do it, some don't. Some people like it, some people do not.

Good to know. Was shooting with someone at Gunsite last month who has some extensive contact with CZ Custom, and he mentioned that it had been intentionally designed in. He was also a few beverages in at dinner that night, so may very well be #FakeNews  ;D, but I like that mine does it.

Yep, there's a bunch of threads on here of people complaining/exulting that their pistol does/doesn't do it. It seems normally to be a function of a slightly worn slide catch spring or notch, along with the profile of the bullet.
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Offline dehughes

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Re: New P10F failing to feed
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2020, 09:35:14 PM »
Thanks all.

I inspected and cleaned the gun prior to first shooting it, and observed nothing out of the ordinary.  In fact, I liked what I saw, as the pistol seemed well made and had an interesting design. 

I did not disassemble or inspect or clean the magazines before first shooting the pistol, but I did that just now, and observed nothing out of the ordinary.  Seems like typical modern 9mm double-stack design, and nothing seemed amiss.

As for the auto-forward, yes, this pistol did that once when I was loading it, and didn't experience the FTF in that instance.  When I utilized the slide stop (that one's for you, Iron Giant), that's when I noticed the FTF issue about half the time.  I'll see if pulling the slide back and then releasing it vs. using the slide stop yields different results.  I have a lot of rounds through the Glock platform, as well as many through SIG, HK, and Beretta, and have nearly always used the slide stop lever to release the slide and chamber a round from a full magazine, yet never with stoppages such as with this P10F, so I'll try to curb my muscle memory and see if I can get this pistol to run 100%.

And again, the issue wasn't with a slide stop interfering (best I can tell), but rather with the nose of the top round of a full mag getting pushed into the lip of the feed ramp on the barrel's chamber.  If it does this with FMJ rounds, then I don't have high hopes for most self-defense/duty rounds.  We shall see.

Thanks for the suggestions...much appreciated.  I'll post back after I get more rounds through it.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2020, 08:22:55 AM by dehughes »

Offline SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM

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Re: New P10F failing to feed
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2020, 04:42:27 AM »
If the gun is clean and the mags are clean go put 3-500 rounds through the gun to be sure it is broken in. If it still misbehaves then call CZ-USA and let them fix it under warranty. Some guns go through a break in period and some do not. None of my CZ's ever failed out of the box but a couple Sigs needed 300 rounds before they would run right.

Offline Joe L

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Re: New P10F failing to feed
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2020, 09:59:02 AM »
I'll second what SVPP posted above.  Some of the polymer guns have a rub between the slide and the polymer frame that slows the slide down just a little.  I think 2 of my 5 were like that.  On one I had to trim some polymer and that was quicker than letting it wear down.  Also, the slides and lock up on the CZ's is tighter when new than on a lot of service pistols.  They will loosen up in less than 500 rounds.  I think my first P-09 had some trouble cycling even FMJ initially but has never been a problem since.  And it became my bullseye match gun for two years. it was so good.  Lots of videos on my You Tube channel JoeMustang99, if you want to look.  I've shot several sub 4" groups at 100 yards with each of my plastic CZ pistols.  They are tight. 

If you ramp is smooth and the slide isn't dragging, and the magazine spring is in right and the magazine is clean, everything should work after it loosens up a little.  At least I hope so. 

Joe
CZ-75B 9mm and Kadet, 97B"E", two P-09's, P-07, P-10C, P-10F

Offline dehughes

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Re: New P10F failing to feed
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2020, 11:09:29 PM »
Well thanks guys.  I took it to the range today and it ran well with 115gr WWB FMJ ammo.  Tried to get it to FTF but it wouldn't, with either mag.  Tried a couple 147gr Winchester Ranger JHP rounds as well, but those were fine when fed from slide lock with either mag when they were the only round in the mag.

However, when I got home I tried some 115gr Blazer Brass FMJ again, and feeding from a full mag from slide lock I could pretty consistently get the nose of the round to fail to feed from slide lock.  So much so, that I visually observed bullet setback when compared to other rounds.

I then put 18rds of Blazer Brass FMJ into each mag, with a 147gr Winchester Ranger JHP round on top as the 19th round, and from slide lock I consistently got that JHP round to fail to feed by nosing into the bottom edge of the feed ramp, just like the FMJ round, with both magazines.

This leads me to think either 1) there's something wrong with my pistol and/or mags, or 2) my MAGAZINES need to break in, as that last round is pretty stiff and I'm wondering if the tight new mag is causing the top round of 19 to drag when pushed into the chamber by the slide, delaying it's entry long enough for the barrel to raise back up enough to where the bottom edge of the feed ramp is now in a position to basically bisect the nose of the top round being fed from a full magazine.  That, and it still visually appears that the top round of a full mag sits at a slightly different angle than when just one round is in the magazine.

That all said, the pistol shoots flawlessly, and aside from a brass-to-face that's happened once in about 125 rounds, I've had no issues with the pistol feeding or ejecting when running through a full magazine. 

Thoughts?  Suggestions?  On a positive note though, my slide stop spring hasn't popped off the ledge again...

Offline Grendel

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Re: New P10F failing to feed
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2020, 11:56:20 PM »
Don't read too much (if anything) into how a pistol performs when hand cycling it. That action bears absolutely no resemblance as to how it will perform when firing. There is no way of replicating the violence of a slide under recoil, short of shooting it. Best thing to do, if you think something is going on, is when at the range, shoot single shots and observe what, if anything, is happening that way.
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Offline dehughes

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Re: New P10F failing to feed
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2020, 09:18:46 AM »
Unfortunately this was not hand cycling, but was just using the slide stop lever to release the slide and chamber a round from a full magazine.

On a positive note though, I tinkered with it again last night and observed that when I was either a little more violent with my reloads and releasing of the slide stop lever, or if I overhand released the slide instead of using the slide stop lever, the FTF issue disappeared with both the FMJ and JHP ammunition. I am kind of wondering if the gun as a whole, including the magazines, just needs to break in more.

 

anything