New P10F failing to feed

[Grendel]

Unfortunately this was not hand cycling, but was just using the slide stop lever to release the slide and chamber a round from a full magazine.

A distinction without a difference.

However, the conclusion that it needs a little bit of 'break in' is very likely correct. Keep shooting and enjoy your new gun!

[dehughes]

Took my P10F to the range today, and halfway through our pistol training I swapped out my duty pistol (Gen 5 G17 w/TLR-1) for the P10F.  Figured since we were going to work on diagnostics/malfunction clearing it's too perfect an opportunity.

Found that the P10F did NOT like single-hand shooting...had about one in 5 or 6 rounds fail to feed, nosing into the bottom of the feed ramp and locking the slide back.  These were all live rounds...no dummies.

When we switched back to two handed shooting but with dummy rounds mixed in with live rounds, I was getting only a slightly less FTF rate as the single handed shooting.  Same type of FTF...nose into bottom of feed ramp.

I thought perhaps I was limp-wristing it, or hitting the slide lock, but no adjustments of my grip or hand position seemed to have any effect.  Put about 100-ish rounds through it total today...all 115gr WWB FMJ.

So I'm stumped.  Initially I did not experience any FTFs when shooting through the magazines, only when loading the top round of a fully-loaded 19rd mag by using the slide stop lever.  Now I'm experiencing those same FTFs but in the course of working through both fully loaded and half-loaded magazines.  I don't want to send this back to CZ as it's literally brand new, but this seems like an odd "break-in".  Never had to break in a pistol before....in fact, I've had more failures in the ~200 rounds with this P10F than I've had cumulatively in the tens of thousands of rounds I've shot in any platform, be it pistol or rifle. 

Again, I REALLY like the way this pistol feels and shoots.  Any more suggestions?  I'd like to at least put 500 rounds through it before I give up and send it to CZ but I figure there's a chance I could diagnose the problem.  Thanks in advance...I really appreciate all of your help.

[Bossgobbler]

The strong hand FTF is a sign that the slide does not have enough speed when cycling from the weaker grip with one hand.

#1 lock the slide back and leave it that way for a few days. #2 Load the mags and keep them loaded for a few days. The springs will set and lose a small amount of tension. #3 CZ's like lots of lube on the slide and slide rails.

[dehughes]

The strong hand FTF is a sign that the slide does not have enough speed when cycling from the weaker grip with one hand.

#1 lock the slide back and leave it that way for a few days. #2 Load the mags and keep them loaded for a few days. The springs will set and lose a small amount of tension. #3 CZ's like lots of lube on the slide and slide rails.

Copy that.  Will do, all three of those things.  Thanks.

Also, oddly, I could NOT get a FTF at home this evening despite my very best efforts, while cycling and loading it with the same Blazer 115gr FMJ rounds that initially gave me a problem.  Interesting...what a yo-yo ride this is.

On a semi-related note, the slide stop spring popped off again.  I've heard to bend the spring in and down to keep it on that ledge it rests upon.  Is there a trick to that?  Do I have to take the spring out or is there a simpler way?

Thanks again.

[SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM]

I'd call CZ and let them handle it under warranty at this point. IF the spring is popping out it's a warranty issue that the consumer should not have to fix.

[anach]

Early on, there were problems with the slide lever spring popping off the catch. It's likely due to an out-of-spec frame and it's something CZ will need to address, but may be difficult to get a resolution on from CZ. earlan357 has a video floating around somewhere showing the gap between the frame and the block that the spring slips through.

It may be worth looking at the COL of the rounds that feed and the rounds that don't, but I suspect it's a magazine tension thing. Like you don't put 30 into an AR mag, you might just not be able to get 19 into the mag and have it 100% reliable. Load to 18, shoot it normally, and in 6 months, try 19 rounds and see if things improve.

[dehughes]

Early on, there were problems with the slide lever spring popping off the catch. It's likely due to an out-of-spec frame and it's something CZ will need to address, but may be difficult to get a resolution on from CZ. earlan357 has a video floating around somewhere showing the gap between the frame and the block that the spring slips through.

It may be worth looking at the COL of the rounds that feed and the rounds that don't, but I suspect it's a magazine tension thing. Like you don't put 30 into an AR mag, you might just not be able to get 19 into the mag and have it 100% reliable. Load to 18, shoot it normally, and in 6 months, try 19 rounds and see if things improve.

Good points, thanks. 

The spring isn't popping out between the frame and the lever....it's popping off the little ledge inside the lever, on the magazine-side, NOT the frame side.  I know the spring issue you speak of, and yes, that is likely due to out of spec frames or similar, but my issue is likely the result of that little ledge being not shallow enough to retain the spring under recoil.  I looked at aftermarket slide stops, but their ledge appeared to be the same.

As for the mags being analogous to 30 in an AR mag...I get you.  Makes sense...which is why they've been fully loaded for a couple days now, as per the recommendation above.  I'll give it a shot next week or the week after and see if anything improves.

[dehughes]

I've left the mags loaded with 19 for a while now, and they seem different...less spring tension, and I've seen no issues either seating the full mags on a forward slide or loading the top round from slide lock.  Tried my darndest to get a FTF administratively but no luck, so that's good.  Out with foot surgery for a bit so I won't be able to get to the range for a while to see if I get FTFs in live fire, but I'm feeling confident the issue with FTFs was related to mag spring tension.  I left the slide locked back as well, so I hope I'm past the FTF problems.  Thanks to all who helped out....much appreciated.

As for the spring slipping off the slide stop lever, that one I e-mailed CZ about and am waiting on a return authorization.  Don't feel like tinkering with a brand new pistol so I'll let them sort that out in house.  Still think that spring/slide stop setup is poorly engineered, but I'm no engineer...

Anyone have experience with how long it takes CZ to get back to you with a return authorization?

[Truckie1794]

Just a suggestion.  If you can, head to the range with a wheelchair.  It's not a bad idea to maintain your proficiency (for self defense) while you're less mobile and recuperating.  Hope your issue gets solved and you have a quick and pain free recovery. 

[dehughes]

Just a suggestion.  If you can, head to the range with a wheelchair.  It's not a bad idea to maintain your proficiency (for self defense) while you're less mobile and recuperating.  Hope your issue gets solved and you have a quick and pain free recovery.

Thanks.  I can stand, and even hobble/walk, I just can't drive yet.  Maybe later in the week after the stitches come out. 

[dehughes]

Well, I shipped off my P10F today...they should receive it tomorrow.  Hopefully their turn-around time is quick as I'd like to spend more time with this pistol, since I really grew to like it.  Here's hoping they can resolve the spring-popping off and FTF issues, though I'm beginning to suspect the FTF was a question of mag spring tightness.

[dehughes]

Good news...CZ just e-mailed me an hour or so ago and said my pistol is all finished and to expect a shipping notification soon.  That's a pretty good turn-around for warranty service!  Granted, this is the first time I've ever had to send a firearm to the manufacturer for warranty service, but hey, a little over a week ain't bad.  Stuff happens. 

I'll install the HBI Theta trigger once it gets back here (hopefully tomorrow) and update on this thread if there are any pertinent changes.

[Truckie1794]

Just curious, did they say what the actual problem was and what they did to fix it?

[dehughes]

Just curious, did they say what the actual problem was and what they did to fix it?

The notes from the repair guy at CZ said he replaced the slide stop and spring, and tuned the ejector. He said he fired rounds through it and experienced no malfunctions with S&B FMJ ammo. 

I have yet to get out and shoot it myself, but manipulating it at home has shown me that the slide stop is more stiff now, but I have had no feeding issues with FMJ despite my best efforts. Granted this is not a live-fire situation but I will get to that eventually.

[Truckie1794]

Glad to hear that.  Hope that's the end of the issue for you.