Any ideas on this spot in my P-07 barrel?

[CCWLearner]

We carried one of my P-07's to the range last week, and ran 300 rounds of Federal Syntech through it in around one hour.  It was 250 rounds of 150 gr Action Pistol and 50 rounds of 147 gr training.  My son and I were passing the pistol back and forth, shooting steel plates.

So this ammo has leed-free primers and is jacketed with polymer so should leave little to no lead or copper fouling.  Normally if I run 300 rounds of FMJ through my gun then the barrel is going to take a bath in Hoppes #9 bore cleaner overnight.  This time, starting with a clean barrel that had previously been treated with Eezox, I decided to just try to clean it up with Eezox at first.  I also didn't scrub it with a bronze brush, but I did use some brass-reinforced VFG pellets.

Well after doing that, I checked it with a bore scope and saw there were still streaks of carbon in there, so I went ahead and degreased it with brake cleaner to remove the Eezox and then dunked it in a jar of Hoppes #9 for around 12 hours, overnight.  The next day I wiped a fair amount of additional carbon out with patch cloths, put some Ballistol in it and scrubbed it with a bronze brush, patched it out more, degreased it again, and then re-applied Eezox.

Now it looks pretty clean but there's a weird spot in there near the crown that I can't seem to remove with any type of scrubbing.  It isn't visible to the naked eye but here you can see it in these bore scope photos:





Any ideas on what that might be?  I can't say for sure this wasn't there previously, but I have never seen it, and I have an entire collection of bore scope images I've taken of this barrel over the past year.

[seebee62]

Probably just some finish wear. It doesn’t look like metal fatigue.

How you clean your guns is up to you but over scrubbing letting it sit for hours in a solution could accelerate finish wear.

Prior to the ammo shortage I would shoot 3-400 rounds of 9mm on a typical range trip. If it was my carry gun I would clean it as soon as I got home. 10 mins tops to clean and lube my P07.




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[M1A4ME]

You can see more stuff with a bore scope than is good for you psyche. 

Bad mojo. 

To my naked eye my P07 barrel is so clean and shiny when I get done cleaning it.  I shoot lead bullets through it, bring it home, run dry patches through it and the darn thing is just clean and shiny.  Easier to clean than anything else I shoot.

Then I got a bore scope.  Holy cow!!!  Brown spots, gouges, nicks, all manner of just ugly looking things on the lands, grooves and leade/chamber.

My advice would be to keep shooting it.  Keep cleaning it.  Look at it with the bore scope to see if you can identify any changes that take place over time/use.

[CCWLearner]

Thanks for the feedback.  I have re-assembled the pistol and packed it away for now.  I think it may be a mark of brass off of the slotted tip on my cleaning rod, but didn't expect to see it withstand scrubbing with brushes and solvents like that.  I will let it rest until I get around to shooting it again, then see if it makes it through that cleaning.

I also agree that over-cleaning isn't necessarily good for the barrel which is why I have been trying to go with barrel pre-treatment and clean ammo to reduce fouling in the first place, then minimal solvents and scrubbing afterward.  Then I check it with the bore scope and see stuff that makes me want to go nuclear on it.

This is my backup P-07 which is only going to see the inside of my safe, except when I have it out to dry fire, unlike my primary which I carry and expose to the elements more.  I have range ammo but not looking to burn through it with the current pricing and (lack of) availability.

[M1A4ME]

OP, if I shoot my P07 I clean it when I get home.  Even if just a 5 shot group to help me figure out if the poor groups from load development or shooting another brand of pistol (FN, M&P, etc.) is me or the load/pistol.

I bought some stuff called Bore Tech Eliminator last year and it really cleaned the copper fouling and crud out of my pistol barrels (I was trying all kinds of stuff to get some other pistols to shoot good groups).

This is the P07 .40 barrel after lots of cleaning.  One picture that make it look really bad (can't see it with your eyes, but the scope sees what evil lurks in the lands/grooves of your barrel - hey, I like the Shadow movie).

See that ugly dark brown looking line of spots that runs a good ways around the barrel with the big dark spot?



I have more bore scope pictures that show gouges, grooves, etc., etc. but won't waste more "space" with them.  It's not a very pretty barrel as seen through the bore scope.

But, when I'm having a bad day with the other pistols and I need to know if it's me or the load or pistol I pull the P07 out of my IWB holster and shoot a 5 shot group at the same range.  This is what I usually get and I put the other stuff away and go home with a smile (knowing it's not me) and the knowledge I need to find some different loads (bullets/powder/powder charge) or stop wasting time/money on non CZ pistols.

Ugly barrels (through the bore scope) can shoot good groups.

[CCWLearner]

Yeah, I see that weird jagged pattern.  Also looks like you have a streak of copper in there.

Excellent group, though!

If I hadn't bought this bore scope last year, I'd probably worry a lot less about tiny imperfections in my barrels.  Actually I'm going to finally get around to scoping the barrel of my 30-year-old Mini-14 tomorrow, and I'm not really sure what to expect in there.  I do know I want to take a close look at where the gas block is attached.  It's been super reliable for a long time now, but seems over-gassed, like Mini-14's are known to be.

[M1A4ME]

There's a guy named Joe on the forum here and he keeps making me spend money.

First the P09 9MM, the bore scope, etc.

He hasn't joined in on this thread yet but he has a P09 that he shoots awesome groups with all the way out to 100 or 200 yds.  He found out, awhile back (after buying a bore scope) that the bore was pitted.  He thinks it happened due to spots of carbon catching/holding moisture over a period of several months.  However, in spite of efforts to clean the barrel (thought it was dirty at first and the bore scope showed him the spots were pits, not carbon left after his cleaning efforts) the scope showed him what he was really seeing.

The best part is, in spite of the pits, the gun still shoots like it always has.  No degradation in groups due to the pits in the barrel.

One of the worst looking barrels I saw after buying a bore scope was the Storm Lake barrel I bought for an M&P .40.  Ugly as sin inside.  I have not looked at a rifle barrel yet.  Sort of afraid to get into that as long as I'm happy with the way they shoot.

[SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM]

I know everybody likes "gadgets" but I think you guys are causing yourselves undue heartburn with those bore scopes. I suppose if I was looking at a used gun or something I suspected of accuracy problems I could see the value but beyond that...    After each outing I brush the bore out with some No9 then rinse it with aerosol and dry it then a few patches with some lube and drive on. The guns shoot perfectly and accurately and no heartburn.

[Joe L]

There's a guy named Joe on the forum here and he keeps making me spend money.

First the P09 9MM, the bore scope, etc.

He hasn't joined in on this thread yet but he has a P09 that he shoots awesome groups with all the way out to 100 or 200 yds.  He found out, awhile back (after buying a bore scope) that the bore was pitted.  He thinks it happened due to spots of carbon catching/holding moisture over a period of several months.  However, in spite of efforts to clean the barrel (thought it was dirty at first and the bore scope showed him the spots were pits, not carbon left after his cleaning efforts) the scope showed him what he was really seeing.

The best part is, in spite of the pits, the gun still shoots like it always has.  No degradation in groups due to the pits in the barrel.

One of the worst looking barrels I saw after buying a bore scope was the Storm Lake barrel I bought for an M&P .40.  Ugly as sin inside.  I have not looked at a rifle barrel yet.  Sort of afraid to get into that as long as I'm happy with the way they shoot.

That would be me.  I have used the borescope plenty over the last few years and all I can say is this...

"Never aim your borescope at anything you aren't willing to clean"    or agonize over.

The discovery of pitting in my absolutely still perfect shooting P-09, plus some carbon rings in the .22's have convinced me to be much more consistent in cleaning the guns when I get home instead of every few weeks.  Also, reflections and color shifts are confusing at times when using the borescope.  I pay a lot more attention now to the chamber end and start of the rifling than I do to discolorations in the bore now, and I only get out the borescope when the accuracy falls off or when I really have a problem.  I always find something to worry about if I just spot check a bore when the gun is already proven to shoot perfectly.  That pitted P-09 barrel is STILL good for sub 4" five shot groups at 100 yards.  I used to be scared to clean it for fear of ruining it and that is how it got pitted. 

Joe 

[GMork]

...

[recoilguy]

I know everybody likes "gadgets" but I think you guys are causing yourselves undue heartburn with those bore scopes. I suppose if I was looking at a used gun or something I suspected of accuracy problems I could see the value but beyond that...    After each outing I brush the bore out with some No9 then rinse it with aerosol and dry it then a few patches with some lube and drive on. The guns shoot perfectly and accurately and no heartburn.

Wiser words have never been said

RCG

[m1a_scoutguy]

You're supposed to clean your guns!  Borescopes, I thought that only Bench rest guys had them, LOL Best advice, put the borescope down, stop cleaning it likes it gonna be inspected by a Marine Drill Sargent, and just shoot it,LOL
More guns and bad accuracy have been created by over-cleaning than by shooting and running a patch through the bore every 1000 rds that's for sure. I'm busting on ya for sure, that's my take on it, you do what's best for you & what makes you happy. Shoot 'em up!

[CCWLearner]

Thanks for the advice from everyone.  I will take it into consideration, as far as the over-cleaning and mental anguish vs. any actual benefit of scoping barrels to find something to obsess over.

In any case, with the assistance of the bore scope, I did de-carbon my 30+ year-old Mini-14 down to bare metal for the first time ever.  This included not only the bore but also the op rod and the area around the gas block.  I also had a look at the gas block hole inside the barrel where I could see the erosion that has taken place there.



This was like a week-long project during which I ended up acquiring some new carbon-busting solvent because my old-school Hoppes solvent and Ballistol weren't getting the job done.  I was looking for some Boretech C4 but couldn't find any available locally so went instead with Hoppes Black carbon cleaner which ended up working great.  It melts carbon into this blue goo.

After I was done with the Mini-14 I decided to scope the barrel of my 30ish-year-old S&W M38-2 and lo and behold I found two rust spots near the crown, along with some spots with hardened carbon and some pitting from some past corrosion I wasn't even aware of.  This gun was put away clean and hasn't been fired for around two years.  It has been pocket carried a few times during that period, when my other pocket gun was offline for whatever reason.



Ballistol removed the rust spots, but didn't do anything to the carbon, so I used a small amount of that Hoppes Black carbon cleaner along with some scrubbing with a brass-reinforced VFG pellet, then Eezoxed the barrel and the chambers, once I confirmed most of the carbon was gone.  You can still see the pitting from some past corrosion in there:





Anyway I'll check it again probably next year and hopefully won't find any new rust spots.

[SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM]

Clean your bores after each range session because even with smokeless powder and non corrosive primers soot and carbon can and will attract moisture. Guns that are cleaned when put away should also have an oily patch run down the bore every few months just to maintain the moisture barrier.

[Joe L]

CCWLearner--thanks for the update and the additional report of good results with the Hoppe's carbon cleaner.  I like seeing good borescope photos.

I agree NOW with SVPP, as far as cleaning after shooting then a light oil.  I used to clean the pistols every few weeks but that could be after several range session.  The barrel of my P-09 shows some pits now.  It still shoots fine, but the barrel damage is there.  Here is a video of my P-09 barrel from last year.
https://youtu.be/9iKyjZ8vKJw
Joe