CZ SP01 Tactical Torturing Dots (or were they torturing me?)

[Doodycycle]

I recorded myself shooting Dot Torture a while back and posted it to YouTube. I meant to link to it in here and forgot. Anywho, I was testing Underwood Extreme Defender and did experience a failure to feed (flute hung up on top of chamber entrance). Here it is:

[Europe]

Good video.
1. What is the point of using SP01 as carry weapon (and in this particular case- concealed one)? Does it mean you carry the SP01?
2. Each IDPA or similar practice pistol drills are performed within a time limit. Otherwise it does not make sense. You perform those drills really slowly- in these circumstances you would be shot at least twice by a skilled shooter. If this is a concentration excercise as you said- what's the point of drawing from concealment?
3. IMHO you have to be very fast and accurate at the same time in order to make any use of concealed carry. I don't carry, although I can do 2 alpha shots at 10yards under 2 seconds.

[Earl Keese]

Dot Torture is a mental focus/trigger control drill. Not a speed drill. Most people start at 3 yards and don't move back until they score 50/50. The idea is to shoot it clean before increasing speed and distance. It's much harder than it looks. I struggle to maintain focus for the entire drill. Drawing from concealment while practicing makes perfect sense(even slowly) if thats how you carry. Not everybody competes.

 3. IMHO you have to be very fast and accurate at the same time in order to make any use of concealed carry. I don't carry, although I can do 2 alpha shots at 10yards under 2 seconds.

There are plenty of defensive pistol trainers that would disagree with the above statements. The majority of those people that were successful in a defensive gun use were neither fast nor accurate, they were decisive and deliberate. Also, the A zone is bigger than the 2"circles used for dot torture. You have to remember that the average DGU isn't against highly skilled shooters. Concealed carry is about improving your chances of survival, not being the fastest gun around(that doesn't hurt though :-)

[Europe]

understood. So, why drawing from concealment? It's a normal target practice if I am not mistaken. What does it mean "to be successful in defensive gun"?

[Earl Keese]

What does it mean "to be successful in defensive gun"?

Umm, I dunno. Maybe not dead or bleeding because you weren't carrying?

[bobjd]

Dot Torture is a mental focus/trigger control drill. Not a speed drill. Most people start at 3 yards and don't move back until they score 50/50. The idea is to shoot it clean before increasing speed and distance. It's much harder than it looks. I struggle to maintain focus for the entire drill. Drawing from concealment while practicing makes perfect sense(even slowly) if thats how you carry. Not everybody competes.

 3. IMHO you have to be very fast and accurate at the same time in order to make any use of concealed carry. I don't carry, although I can do 2 alpha shots at 10yards under 2 seconds.

There are plenty of defensive pistol trainers that would disagree with the above statements. The majority of those people that were successful in a defensive gun use were neither fast nor accurate, they were decisive and deliberate. Also, the A zone is bigger than the 2"circles used for dot torture. You have to remember that the average DGU isn't against highly skilled shooters. Concealed carry is about improving your chances of survival, not being the fastest gun around(that doesn't hurt though :-)

+1 on this.

[Doodycycle]

Good video.
1. What is the point of using SP01 as carry weapon (and in this particular case- concealed one)? Does it mean you carry the SP01?

Yes indeed, this is my daily concealed carry gun. I am 6'1", 250 lbs, with a substantial midsection. Concealing this gun is not much of an issue, particularly in the winter.

You perform those drills really slowly- in these circumstances you would be shot at least twice by a skilled shooter.

Lucky for me then, that bad guys are rarely skilled shooters. Not that I want to rely on that, but there it is, a pretty incontrovertible fact.

3. IMHO you have to be very fast and accurate at the same time in order to make any use of concealed carry. I don't carry, although I can do 2 alpha shots at 10yards under 2 seconds.

People who are neither fast nor accurate (at least by competition standards) make very good use of concealed carry guns on a fairly regular basis. In fact, sometimes they do not even pull the trigger. Like John on ASP says all the time, awareness buys you time, time buys you options. There is much much more to self defense than just carrying a gun.

Nevertheless, my goal is indeed to get fast and accurate. I am never going to be burning up the competitions, to be sure, but I can certainly get better. I will say that this slow drill gives me the opportunity to focus on the individual elements of drawing and firing the pistol. Also, with the video, I can go back and readily see mistakes that I am making (and there are quite a few).

I haven't shot against a timer in a very long time, but I just recently got one, so I will be doing some faster, timed work as well (assuming I can get ammo lol), and I'll try to get that put together on YouTube as well.

Thanks for watching the video and commenting.

[Europe]

First off, it's great that you train with your carry gun. It's extremely rare to have full size metal pistol as CCW. Respect.   Awareness is extremely important, but the bad guys  draw their weapon first. So speed is everything. Maybe you recall the story Travis Haley told in one of the magpul videos- he was on a tour overseas kicking doors. A conversation with a local turned the wrong way- the local guy pulled out an AK and pointed at Hailey. Haley deflected the barrel of the AK, drew his pistol and shot the guy in the head. He said he did this because he was confident that he can deliver an accurate shot from the holster below 1 second. Besides, if you watch news, you noticed that people usually get stabbed (at least in Europe) in a closed environment (underground, train, buses, restaurants). It's difficult and risky to defend yourself with a handgun in such situations.

[Doodycycle]

So speed is everything.

What good is speed, if you are not carrying to begin with?

[George16]

So speed is everything.

What good is speed, if you are not carrying to begin with?

He’s still fast pulling out a knife  .

Back on topic, you don’t have to go to pistol competition to master the fundamentals. Practice dryfiring your carry pistol 30 minutes a day to get used to drawing and to establish your index.

Once you master the fundamentals and establish your index, you’ll be surprised to find out you can draw to the same point even with your eyes closed.

Do some bill drills too. Less than 2 seconds shooting 6 shots at the A zone or other target at 7 yards.

Good luck.

[Earl Keese]

"It's difficult and risky to defend yourself with a handgun in such situations."

Go ahead and keep telling yourself that. I'll continue bringing a gun to a knife fight. It's amusing that someone who doesn't carry speaks with such authority and conviction to people who actually do.

[Europe]

"It's difficult and risky to defend yourself with a handgun in such situations."

Go ahead and keep telling yourself that. I'll continue bringing a gun to a knife fight. It's amusing that someone who doesn't carry speaks with such authority and conviction to people who actually do.

The fact that someone carries a handgun does not constitute a prerequisite to any claim about probability of defending yourself with a handgun when the threat is imminent. Nor does it make an opinion more reliable or accurate than the one of a person who does not carry a handgun (like myself). While referring to inefficiency of using a handgun in majority of self defence scenarios I am referring to crime statistics  (police reporting) and papers published in peer reviewed journals. Big Data, credit risk, profiling algorithms etc.- it's all based on statistical reasoning. If you have another opinion on handgun in self-defence it's fine by me.

[Doodycycle]

The fact that someone carries a handgun does not constitute a prerequisite to any claim about probability of defending yourself with a handgun when the threat is imminent.

I can assure you, the probability of successfully defending yourself with a handgun diminishes significantly when you choose not to carry a handgun; not to zero, but pretty close. So, thanks for the concern, but I'm good with my choice.

[Doodycycle]

So speed is everything.

What good is speed, if you are not carrying to begin with?

He’s still fast pulling out a knife  .

Back on topic, you don’t have to go to pistol competition to master the fundamentals. Practice dryfiring your carry pistol 30 minutes a day to get used to drawing and to establish your index.

Once you master the fundamentals and establish your index, you’ll be surprised to find out you can draw to the same point even with your eyes closed.

Do some bill drills too. Less than 2 seconds shooting 6 shots at the A zone or other target at 7 yards.

Good luck.

Thanks for the sound advice. I have indeed been working on dry fire, but I could always use more. And, with the cost and availability of ammo these days, that's becoming, unfortunately, even more of a necessity.

My initial goal is to pass the FBI qualification, and go from there. I haven't yet attempted it, but, now that I have a shot timer, it's on the menu. Which is another opportunity to plug another of my videos :-) I'm not shooting a CZ, but here's the review I did of my shot timer. It's also an intro to the Project Appleseed PQT, which some of you may find an interesting challenge to try out:

[Fuzzy Sights]

Both videos are great. Thanks for sharing.  May try to find the Dot Torture to train with my P-07.

JW