Author Topic: P10s trigger issue  (Read 1647 times)

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Offline BEE

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Re: P10s trigger issue
« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2021, 05:54:23 PM »
Today I just installed the HBI trigger shoe and polished up all the internals, what a difference those made. However, i'm undecided whether if I should install either of the HBI striker springs as I want to maintain reliability of firing all types of ammo.

When I had both the stock trigger shoe and HBI trigger shoe out and side by side there is a noticeable difference between the two. On the stock shoe(well at least mine), the dingus was stiff & crunchy when pressing on it. On the HBI trigger shoe, the dingus was smooth; not too soft and not too firm, just right..Even the stock dingus on a Glock feels better than a stock P-10.

The HBI trigger kit is definitely worth it, which is all that is needed to transform the P-10 like previously mentioned.

Offline Phyffe

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Re: P10s trigger issue
« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2021, 09:21:58 PM »
I also got the HBI trigger and prefer it to the stock P10-C trigger, mostly because I was getting trigger bite from the factory trigger.  I looked at the original trigger/dingus and saw that one was straight and one was curved, leaving a ridge pressing into the trigger finger while the gun fires.  I carefully smoothed the dingus down to match the profile of the trigger when it was being pressed back, that helped a bunch but there was still some irritation when shooting the pistol.  The HBI Theta trigger has a straight and flat surface that is comfortable for me to use.

All that being said, the CZ factory trigger shouldn't have a hitch to it and you shouldn't have to buy a replacement trigger for it.  There's a good argument for leaving your carry weapon in full factory condition (working as designed) for maximum reliability, so give some thought before making any changes, and the trigger is a big one.

Massad Ayoob in a Youtube video gave what is for me one of the more compelling reasons NOT to modify your trigger. His argument did not center on reliability, but on legal culpability in the event the shooter, whether he be a LEO or civilian. In his experience, a canny prosecutor or lawyer for the plaintiff would seize on the fact that the shooter exceeded factory specs, trying to paint the modification as to being akin to a "hair trigger".

As an attorney myself, albeit not from the States, the guy makes a lot of sense and its that kind of experience that IMHO really sets him apart from the average Youtuber

Offline dohc97

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Re: P10s trigger issue
« Reply #17 on: July 02, 2021, 03:47:11 AM »
I also got the HBI trigger and prefer it to the stock P10-C trigger, mostly because I was getting trigger bite from the factory trigger.  I looked at the original trigger/dingus and saw that one was straight and one was curved, leaving a ridge pressing into the trigger finger while the gun fires.  I carefully smoothed the dingus down to match the profile of the trigger when it was being pressed back, that helped a bunch but there was still some irritation when shooting the pistol.  The HBI Theta trigger has a straight and flat surface that is comfortable for me to use.

All that being said, the CZ factory trigger shouldn't have a hitch to it and you shouldn't have to buy a replacement trigger for it.  There's a good argument for leaving your carry weapon in full factory condition (working as designed) for maximum reliability, so give some thought before making any changes, and the trigger is a big one.

I am lucky enough to own several handguns from several manufacturers. Those handguns that are purely for range use, have some sort of mods in them. The handguns that will be used for defensive purposes are kept 100% stock as far as springs and any internal mods.

Massad Ayoob in a Youtube video gave what is for me one of the more compelling reasons NOT to modify your trigger. His argument did not center on reliability, but on legal culpability in the event the shooter, whether he be a LEO or civilian. In his experience, a canny prosecutor or lawyer for the plaintiff would seize on the fact that the shooter exceeded factory specs, trying to paint the modification as to being akin to a "hair trigger".

As an attorney myself, albeit not from the States, the guy makes a lot of sense and its that kind of experience that IMHO really sets him apart from the average Youtuber

Offline SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM

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Re: P10s trigger issue
« Reply #18 on: July 02, 2021, 04:50:39 AM »
Massad Ayoob in a Youtube video gave what is for me one of the more compelling reasons NOT to modify your trigger. His argument did not center on reliability, but on legal culpability in the event the shooter, whether he be a LEO or civilian. In his experience, a canny prosecutor or lawyer for the plaintiff would seize on the fact that the shooter exceeded factory specs, trying to paint the modification as to being akin to a "hair trigger".

As an attorney myself, albeit not from the States, the guy makes a lot of sense and its that kind of experience that IMHO really sets him apart from the average Youtuber
Ayoob has had some "decent" opinions on some things in the past. I like some of his old training vids for what they are worth. That said I don't own a single gun that has not been modified and I will ALWAYS mod my guns too suit my preference. On this subject Ayoob is just plain wrong and this kind of nonsense is how myths and wives tales get started. Ayoob's problem with this is he can't cite a single case of this happening in court nor can he cite his notion that you shouldn't use handloads in defensive situations. He just creates confusion and this plays right into the hands of those prone to hand wringing and paranoia.
If you are involved in a shooting and the case goes to court then it's your use of deadly force that is in question not your gun. Your use of force is either justified or in doubt and it's that simple. Doesn't matter if you used an old .25 auto with a hair trigger or a .44 magnum in stock configuration or a 12 ga. shotgun.

Offline Phyffe

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Re: P10s trigger issue
« Reply #19 on: July 02, 2021, 05:41:25 AM »

Ayoob has had some "decent" opinions on some things in the past. I like some of his old training vids for what they are worth. That said I don't own a single gun that has not been modified and I will ALWAYS mod my guns too suit my preference. On this subject Ayoob is just plain wrong and this kind of nonsense is how myths and wives tales get started. Ayoob's problem with this is he can't cite a single case of this happening in court nor can he cite his notion that you shouldn't use handloads in defensive situations. He just creates confusion and this plays right into the hands of those prone to hand wringing and paranoia.
If you are involved in a shooting and the case goes to court then it's your use of deadly force that is in question not your gun. Your use of force is either justified or in doubt and it's that simple. Doesn't matter if you used an old .25 auto with a hair trigger or a .44 magnum in stock configuration or a 12 ga. shotgun.
[/quote]

All of my guns have modified trigger kits on them. I know a lot of people tell you to get used to full stock first before fiddling with the gun but fiddling with triggers is practically the first thing I do to a new gun O0.

With that being said, I tend to give old Ayoob the benefit of the doubt, as I said in the video he was referring a lot to LEOs and how people try to make the shooting seem unsafe by claiming non-factory mods create an unsafe environment. Scummy, I know...

Offline SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM

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Re: P10s trigger issue
« Reply #20 on: July 02, 2021, 07:57:54 PM »

Ayoob has had some "decent" opinions on some things in the past. I like some of his old training vids for what they are worth. That said I don't own a single gun that has not been modified and I will ALWAYS mod my guns too suit my preference. On this subject Ayoob is just plain wrong and this kind of nonsense is how myths and wives tales get started. Ayoob's problem with this is he can't cite a single case of this happening in court nor can he cite his notion that you shouldn't use handloads in defensive situations. He just creates confusion and this plays right into the hands of those prone to hand wringing and paranoia.
If you are involved in a shooting and the case goes to court then it's your use of deadly force that is in question not your gun. Your use of force is either justified or in doubt and it's that simple. Doesn't matter if you used an old .25 auto with a hair trigger or a .44 magnum in stock configuration or a 12 ga. shotgun.

All of my guns have modified trigger kits on them. I know a lot of people tell you to get used to full stock first before fiddling with the gun but fiddling with triggers is practically the first thing I do to a new gun O0.

With that being said, I tend to give old Ayoob the benefit of the doubt, as I said in the video he was referring a lot to LEOs and how people try to make the shooting seem unsafe by claiming non-factory mods create an unsafe environment. Scummy, I know...
[/quote]

Who has made a claim about cops or anyone else for that matter using modified guns? Please cite a case or an instance. This is my point exactly neither you nor Ayoob can produce a situation where this has happened.

Offline Phyffe

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Re: P10s trigger issue
« Reply #21 on: July 07, 2021, 01:04:57 AM »
Who has made a claim about cops or anyone else for that matter using modified guns? Please cite a case or an instance. This is my point exactly neither you nor Ayoob can produce a situation where this has happened.
[/quote]

Like I said, I'm not a US attorney, but this guy is apparently one of them and he does cite some cases. I guess his opinion is probably worth more of a bleep.

https://lawofselfdefense.com/legal-liability-for-carry-gun-modifications/

(yes, I think he is trying to sell something LOL)

The one or two of the experts quoted here cite some cases as well.

https://armedcitizensnetwork.org/gun-modifications

Surprisingly even the USCCA (which is a little too gung-ho for me) advocates not modifying your weapon

https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/blog/bland-basic-boring-black/




« Last Edit: July 07, 2021, 01:13:15 AM by Phyffe »

Offline SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM

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Re: P10s trigger issue
« Reply #22 on: July 07, 2021, 04:29:46 AM »
Once again you show me nothing but opinions from gun writers and no REAL court case.

Offline gwes351

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Re: P10s trigger issue
« Reply #23 on: July 24, 2021, 05:44:35 PM »
Let me (try to) get this back to the original topic.  On 1 of my P10Cs I can replicate the trigger hang up issue (so far can't replicate it on my P-10s).  It happens when you have some lateral (side) force while you depress the trigger (with a straight rearward pull it does not happen - again, easy to replicate).  The frame cutout behind the trigger safety lever isn't quite sized to allow the rear of the lever to clear the frame - gets hung up.  Again, once you see it and know how it happens it is easy to replicate.

So, my first question is whether anyone has returned a P series to CZ to have this fixed?  2nd, it appears that it could easily be remedied by slightly enlarging the frame cutout area - my guess is this might be what CZ would do themselves.  Slightly enlarging the frame cutout area does not appear to make any difference in how the safety lever functions:  if you don't depress it with a trigger pull, the gun will not fire (a complete trigger pull will fire the gun - as designed).  What are your thoughts on 1 or 2 I've mentioned above?

Offline powernoodle

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Re: P10s trigger issue
« Reply #24 on: July 26, 2021, 08:32:57 AM »
Three times I noticed that there was a hitch in the trigger. I had to release the trigger and pull it again.

I had the same issue with my P-10 F.  The back of the so-called trigger safety, i.e., the drop safety, is striking the frame which is causing your problem.  This happens when the safety is not fully engaged.  For me it occurred when I was actuating the trigger with the pad of my finger (the center of the fingerprint), which did not fully engage the safety.  When pressing with the hard end of my finger, the safety was fully engaged and it did not hang-up on the frame.

I took a Victorinox Classic swiss army knife and shaved a little off the bottom of that tab on the back of the safety that strikes the frame.  Then I lightly sanded it with the Classic's fingernail sander thingy.  The safety still works exactly as designed, but now the tab does not strike the frame when I pull the trigger.  I hope this makes sense.  It was very disconcerting to have a nice, new CZ with trigger issues, and quite a relief to figure out the problem and solve it at my kitchen table.

« Last Edit: July 26, 2021, 08:45:36 AM by powernoodle »

Offline Joe L

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Re: P10s trigger issue
« Reply #25 on: July 26, 2021, 09:01:30 AM »
I had the same issue with my P-10 F.  The back of the so-called trigger safety, i.e., the drop safety, is striking the frame which is causing your problem.  This happens when the safety is not fully engaged.  For me it occurred when I was actuating the trigger with the pad of my finger (the center of the fingerprint), which did not fully engage the safety.  When pressing with the hard end of my finger, the safety was fully engaged and it did not hang-up on the frame.

I took a Victorinox Classic swiss army knife and shaved a little off the bottom of that tab on the back of the safety that strikes the frame.  Then I lightly sanded it with the Classic's fingernail sander thingy.  The safety still works exactly as designed, but now the tab does not strike the frame when I pull the trigger.  I hope this makes sense.  It was very disconcerting to have a nice, new CZ with trigger issues, and quite a relief to figure out the problem and solve it at my kitchen table.



This.  All three of my P-10's hung just enough to be irritating when new, with the factory trigger safety pecker.  You can fix it with a small file or fingernail file.  Just go slow and don't trim it any more than you have to to keep it from dragging in a normal trigger pull.  It should still hang if your trigger finger placement isn't normal.
Joe
CZ-75B 9mm and Kadet, 97B"E", two P-09's, P-07, P-10C, P-10F, P-10S, MTR