Author Topic: Wrist rest experiment went poorly, now I know why  (Read 280 times)

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Offline Joe L

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Wrist rest experiment went poorly, now I know why
« on: June 10, 2021, 07:40:29 PM »
Before this last trip to the mountains of New Mexico, I decided to replace my tried and true simple wrist rest with a new, very rigid hand made and highly engineered version.  It didn't work well, so, after two attempts I reverted back to my original 4x4 plus ammo box plus microfiber towel setup, and that worked fine again, as always.  Here is a little more in-depth explanation of what was happening and why the ammo box worked better than the rigid version. 



After I finished the video, I removed the top two 2x4's, placed an ammo box across the remaining ones, wrapped the shop mat around the ammo box, and put two screws in the shop mat to contain the box.  This feels OK in the shop, but the real test will be at the range, as always.  And this time I am not going to assume this will work perfectly, like I did on the first testing of the rigid rest. 

There is a bigger lesson here than just for those of us who like to shoot pistols at long distances from a wrist rest, and that is this.  Shooting a pistol is similar to shooting a rifle at long distances in that every little detail matters.  Consistency is the key.  When I change anything, the zero shifts.  If I change anything during a string of fire, the group is poop.  For a rifle shooter, preload on a bipod, breathing, pressure against your shoulder, head position, parallax, all affect the group size and location.  For a pistol shooter, grip strength, preload prep of the trigger,  eyesight, steadiness, and wrist rest technique and rigidity all make a difference 100 yards out.  I'm learning. 

This is fun.  This is not easy. 

Joe
CZ-75B 9mm and Kadet, 97B"E", two P-09's, P-07, P-10C, P-10F

Offline M1A4ME

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Re: Wrist rest experiment went poorly, now I know why
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2021, 07:45:47 AM »
Joe, how sticky/rough/smooth, etc. is the sugru you use on the grip frame?

Could you try some of that on the magazine base plate to smooth it out, or slightly change the shape to make it easier to adjust the angle/position of the pistol in relation to the surface it's sitting on?

Got another question or two swirling around in the back of my head but I'm not ready to say anything because I'm not sure how rifle shooting relates to what your doing.  Gotta think on it some more.
I stopped carrying the SIG 556R.  SIG changed models and couple/three times and stopped supporting it with parts.  So, I stopped supporting SIG.  Back to the tried/true AR15 Carbine.

Offline Joe L

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Re: Wrist rest experiment went poorly, now I know why
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2021, 08:00:12 AM »
Joe, how sticky/rough/smooth, etc. is the sugru you use on the grip frame?

Could you try some of that on the magazine base plate to smooth it out, or slightly change the shape to make it easier to adjust the angle/position of the pistol in relation to the surface it's sitting on?

Got another question or two swirling around in the back of my head but I'm not ready to say anything because I'm not sure how rifle shooting relates to what your doing.  Gotta think on it some more.

What I couldn't show in the video is how small a movement it takes to move the dot a foot on a target 100 yards away.  I had to exaggerate the movement in the video.  I don't think removing the friction between the magazine base plate and the rest is going to be consistent enough.  For example, a little grease on the magazine against a smooth bare 2x4 might work, but would collect sand and have to be renewed often.  Ugh. 

What I am going to try next is a not-so-dense rubber pad that will give some horizontally (like the box) but not require any relative movement between the surfaces.  And it might eliminate the towel as the pad alone might be soft enough.  And I could attach it directly to the wood and bevel the back edge of the top 2x4 for my wrists at an angle. 

As always, M1A4ME, thanks for taking a look, and for commenting. 

Joe
CZ-75B 9mm and Kadet, 97B"E", two P-09's, P-07, P-10C, P-10F

Offline M1A4ME

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Re: Wrist rest experiment went poorly, now I know why
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2021, 12:47:51 PM »
Mouse pad??  Or one of those disassembly diagram cleaning pads?  They're bigger than a mouse pad so you could lay them on top plus have material to hang down the back side where your wrists might be touching the harder interior part of the rest.
I stopped carrying the SIG 556R.  SIG changed models and couple/three times and stopped supporting it with parts.  So, I stopped supporting SIG.  Back to the tried/true AR15 Carbine.

Offline Joe L

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Re: Wrist rest experiment went poorly, now I know why
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2021, 12:56:09 PM »
Mouse pad??  Or one of those disassembly diagram cleaning pads?  They're bigger than a mouse pad so you could lay them on top plus have material to hang down the back side where your wrists might be touching the harder interior part of the rest.

The ones I've looked at but not tried seem a little too thin, but maybe I can find on that is thicker.  It's almost like I need to turn a stiff brush upside down and constrain the sides, something like that.

Joe
CZ-75B 9mm and Kadet, 97B"E", two P-09's, P-07, P-10C, P-10F

Offline newageroman

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Re: Wrist rest experiment went poorly, now I know why
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2021, 04:46:19 PM »
Very interesting.
I can assure that if you can shoot pistols at 100/200 yards you will be FAR ahead of most pistol shooters at the range, or most public ranges anyway. I'm sure you already know that but just for the other folks that might be reading this. It's akin to taking off training weights when running a sprint.
I commonly shoot at small self healing targets or clays or pieces of clays on the 50 yd berm because I can get instant feedback(splashes) on technique/ammo.

I use the same setup for rifle that I do for bench pistol when I want to get more "accurate". Its basically a standard square wooden ammo crate that holds all the ammo to be used that day on the bench and is about 8" tall. On top of that goes a sandbag. I usually bring a few of those of different sizes and fill%. The stiff ones that are packed full of sand are good for a stable base, but sometimes you need to adjust them down(need a smaller bag) just a bit which is impossible. That's where the longer partially filled bags comes in. You can more easily adjust these types of bags by moving the sand away to the ends if you need to go down, and if you need to go up, you can just twist the end and pin it under the rest of the bag that has sand. A lot of times I twist/pin both ends under it and keep the sand in the middle of the bag. The only bad thing about using the ammo box is that you have to break your setup if you run out of ammo.

With the rifle, I use basically the same setup, but also use a small squeeze bag under the tail of the stock. No bipod on my rifles. I've used this basic method for a couple years now as a standard and it works great, is cheap (old blue jeans and sand) and pretty adjustable. Another bonus is that the bags are there if you need to weigh down a target stand or whatever.

One other small thing that makes a HUGE difference for me, with rifles, is some type of soft shooting mat/jacket under the squeeze bag. If I don't have that the bony part of the inside of my elbow will get banged up on the concrete shooting bench and keep me from focusing on the good stuff. I have used just the padded rifle bags for this, but a heavy wool Jacket is the best for me in that respect. My wife once asked my whey I was taking that jacket to the range in the middle of summer, I had to explain.

Here is a blog where you can see the bags I use. Most of the time I use the ammo box under a bag even for pistol:
http://brassbucket.net/range-daze/

Thanks for the tips Joe! keep us posted on what ends up working the best!
« Last Edit: June 16, 2021, 04:52:10 PM by newageroman »
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Offline Joe L

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Re: Wrist rest experiment went poorly, now I know why
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2021, 06:58:21 PM »
Thanks for the reply, Newageroman.  I'll take a look at your site. 

In related news...
Here is the latest El Cheapo prototype wrist rest.  After seeing how well the ammo box worked on Tuesday, it was time to come up with an alternate design incorporating the horizontal plane degree of freedom for aiming and for recoil consistency.  I had to have some support which did not not depend on low friction between the gun and the support.  A trip to Ace Hardware resulted in the perfect engineered solution--a stiff shop brush. 



I think this will work, will try tomorrow if the outdoor range is open.
Joe
CZ-75B 9mm and Kadet, 97B"E", two P-09's, P-07, P-10C, P-10F

Offline Joe L

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Re: Wrist rest experiment went poorly, now I know why
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2021, 02:37:02 PM »
I tried the super elegant broom rest this morning.  It worked OK but the elevation is too high and the brush bristles are not stiff enough, especially in the right/left direction.  I may try a different brush type or shorten the shop broom bristles some, plus add the rubber pad back to stiffen up the right/left degree of freedom.  My shooting results were OK, but it was more difficult to steady the dot on the brush than it is on the ammo box.  I shot 20 rounds from the original 4x4+ammo box+shop towel wrist rest, and it felt steadier, but the group size didn't shrink from the shop brush design.  The rubber mat used on the ammo box on Tuesday is pretty rigid right/left, and I need to duplicate that with the broom bristle rest.  Might try it again on Friday.
Joe
CZ-75B 9mm and Kadet, 97B"E", two P-09's, P-07, P-10C, P-10F

 

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