Brass going into orbit on new CZ SP-01 Shadow Target 2

[Nomad0001]

First post, so feel free to move it to the most relevant category.

Hi,

I bought *several* cases of Winchester 9mm NATO before buying this gun (and before the crisis @ 8.99 per box!). Point is, that's all I have, and that's what I'm shooting. It works fantastic on my HK, Walther, SIG, S&W. It's a bit dirty, but very accurate, at least in my guns.

First time I shot the SP-01 Shadow, I noticed the brass was landing in a different zip code (15 feet away?). I dug around and found Cajun Gun Works and their recommendations.

 The instructions on which spring to use (to match the load) are that the shell casing should fly about 6 to 8 feet away. Well, with the 11 pound custom spring that the gun comes with, the casings land way out there, I mean probably double the recommended 6 to 8 feet. So I bought a spring selection from CGW. It included 11, 12, 13, 14 pound "combo pack" of springs. I'm all the way up to the 14 pound spring, and the casings do land a bit closer, but still farther than 6 to 8 feet. Also some people say it is  rough on the slide stop if the ammo overpowers the spring.

People have done actual tests on the Winchester white box labeled NATO and found that in reality it's only *very* slightly higher pressure/ muzzle velocity than standard ammo. In fact some say it's more of a marketing ploy to call this particular brand NATO. My point is this ammo is somewhere in the middle between standard and +P. It's not +P (even though *real* NATO 9mm us supposed to be)

What do you guys think?

Please advise.

Thx.

MD

[bonj]

CZ advised....

"You may safely use that Winchester ammunition in your firearm. The NATO specification will be slightly stronger than standard velocity but will not negatively affect your firearm more than slightly accelerated wear on parts."

[Rmach]

It sounds like you need to up the spring weight another couple pounds.

[flatsixfan]

First post, so feel free to move it to the most relevant category.

Hi,

I bought *several* cases of Winchester 9mm NATO before buying this gun (and before the crisis @ 8.99 per box!). Point is, that's all I have, and that's what I'm shooting. It works fantastic on my HK, Walther, SIG, S&W. It's a bit dirty, but very accurate, at least in my guns.

First time I shot the SP-01 Shadow, I noticed the brass was landing in a different zip code (15 feet away?). I dug around and found Cajun Gun Works and their recommendations.

 The instructions on which spring to use (to match the load) are that the shell casing should fly about 6 to 8 feet away. Well, with the 11 pound custom spring that the gun comes with, the casings land way out there, I mean probably double the recommended 6 to 8 feet. So I bought a spring selection from CGW. It included 11, 12, 13, 14 pound "combo pack" of springs. I'm all the way up to the 14 pound spring, and the casings do land a bit closer, but still farther than 6 to 8 feet. Also some people say it is  rough on the slide stop if the ammo overpowers the spring.

People have done actual tests on the Winchester white box labeled NATO and found that in reality it's only *very* slightly higher pressure/ muzzle velocity than standard ammo. In fact some say it's more of a marketing ploy to call this particular brand NATO. My point is this ammo is somewhere in the middle between standard and +P. It's not +P (even though *real* NATO 9mm us supposed to be)

What do you guys think?

Please advise.

Thx.

MD

Hi MD!


Are you sure the SP-01 comes with an 11# spring?  I saw this on CGW's article on how to "Select the Proper Recoil Spring"...........

there are 2 criteria for determining the correct recoil spring poundage: an ejection distance of 6 – 8 feet, and for competition shooters, how quickly your muzzle gets back on target.  Too heavy of a recoil spring can cause the muzzle to “dip”.  Too light of a recoil spring can make the muzzle rise too much and puts added stress on the slide stop pin.  Finding the optimal spring can be trial and error.  The OEM recoil spring weight in a full-size 9mm CZ pistol is 17#’s, including the CZ-97 in .45 ACP.  The compact  9mm metal framed CZ’s use a 16# recoil spring.  The CZ P07 & P09 both use a 20# recoil spring.   Each pound change in the recoil spring will change the ejection distance 1.5 – 2.0 feet.

I'm sure someone here would have a 16# or 17# spring they could send you if you're having problems obtaining one.

[Nomad0001]

Thank you Flatsixfan.

Yep. Sure about the 11 pound spring.
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From CZ-USA:
The Target II is a competition-ready Pre-B style SP-01 Shadow, featuring a CZ Custom trigger job with the new short reset single-action trigger, fully-adjustable rear sight, fiber optic front sight, stainless steel guide rod, lighter springs for competition (11 lb recoil and 13 lb main springs), extended magazine release, drop-free magazines and checkered aluminum grips. Created by champion shooter Angus Hobdell’s CZ Custom Shop to have trigger pulls of 3.0-4.0 lbs in SA and 7.5-8.5 lbs in DA.
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I think I just got in over my head and fell in love with a *true* competition gun based only on its reputation for accuracy. It's my first CZ, and I didn't research it well. Not to say my problem is not easily solvable with the right spring, but it seems obvious to me now (after the fact) that this gun was meant for *real* competition where people manufacture custom soft shooting reloads that match the 11 pound spring.

Thank you for your help again!

PS. I ordered the "stock" SP-01 spring. I'm pretty sure that will be a good match for my ammo.

[flatsixfan]

Thank you Flatsixfan.

Yep. Sure about the 11 pound spring.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From CZ-USA:
The Target II is a competition-ready Pre-B style SP-01 Shadow, featuring a CZ Custom trigger job with the new short reset single-action trigger, fully-adjustable rear sight, fiber optic front sight, stainless steel guide rod, lighter springs for competition (11 lb recoil and 13 lb main springs), extended magazine release, drop-free magazines and checkered aluminum grips. Created by champion shooter Angus Hobdell’s CZ Custom Shop to have trigger pulls of 3.0-4.0 lbs in SA and 7.5-8.5 lbs in DA.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think I just got over my head and fell in love with a *true* competition gun based only on its reputation for accuracy. It's my first CZ, and I didn't research it well. Not to say my problem is not easily solvable with the right spring, but it seems obvious to me now (after the fact) that this gun was meant for *real* competition where people manufacture custom soft shooting reloads that match the 11 pound spring.

Thank you for your help again!

MD:


I KNOW how you feel as I recently purchased a CZ Shadow2 Orange as my FIRST CZ to use in USPSA Production.


Though I'm not sure of the exact weight, I "believe" it comes with an 16# recoil spring.  I DO KNOW that I have had perfect ejection with factory ammo along with my 133PF reloads from the stock spring.


I too have the CGW assorted spring pack, and hope to find that spring that gives me the feel and sight track that I desire; but I'm just not there yet. 


Good luck!

[tdogg]

While the stock spring should help minimize ejection distance, you may end up with muzzle dip on fast follow up shots.  Are you shooting competitions?  This is something to consider when selecting the proper recoil spring.

If you've ever had a 40 cal CZ, you will know they can't be tuned to leave the brass in the 6-8ft range.  I've reverted back to a lighter spring in my TSO's and am still on my stock slide stop (14k between the two of them).  One of these days I'm going to replace the slide stops but thus far I'm good.

Cheers,
Toby