springs and recoil and damage

[Roscoe2212]

I am confused about springs.  Everybody knows you can get different strength springs for CZ and for that matter,
we had them for 1911 back in the day.
The only reason I can come up with for different weight springs is: a: lower recoil b: protect the inner workings of the pistol.  I have read a few posts about ejecting brass in the next zip code, maybe that is why we don't just go to
a spring that gives the lowest recoil?
Who would want to increase recoil??
Seems if you went too low on spring power the slide would start damaging the gun.  Is that the answer?

Just askin'

[George16]

It all depends on the ammo you’re shooting with. Most, if not all the time, the people having their brass launched to the next city are using factory ammo. I reload and tune my recoil springs for the power factor of the ammo I’m using.

For example, on my shadow 2 I’m using in Carry Optics division, I’m using an 11# recoil spring since the PF of the ammo I’m using is only about 128-130 PF. The brass gets ejected about a foot or two away from me. I use this setup to minimize muzzle flip/dip and to get the sights back as quick as I can for a faster following shot.

For my czechmate shooting 171 PF ammo, I’m actually using a lower weight recoil spring (10#) since it has a compensator to help mitigate muzzle rise.

[Roscoe2212]

Ok, got that.  When do you know if too low spring tension is going to damage the pistol?

[timetofly]

If I remoer correctly your brass should be ejected about 6 feet. 

[himurax13]

Ok, got that.  When do you know if too low spring tension is going to damage the pistol?

I do Bill Drills to determine what recoil spring to use. Unless I was making nuclear 10mm loads, I generally don't waste my time worrying about the frame being damaged from recoil.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[George16]

If I remoer correctly your brass should be ejected about 6 feet.

That’s not set it in stone. Having the brass ejected to six feet doesn’t doesn’t mean anything if the muzzle is dipping or flipping too much.

[M1A4ME]

I don't compete.

My CZ's are all possibly (depending on which one I carry/grab) self defense pistols and loaded with hollow points, except sometimes at the range.

So all my CZ's have factory springs in them.  Whatever came in them from the factory or whatever the CZ USA web site says is a "factory spring."

I'd say, compared to the hollow point loads, the Winchester (only bought some once to try in the CZs) and Federal 115 grain FMJ are not up to the velocity/recoil of the hollow points but the CZs still work just fine with them.  P01s, P09, Pre B CZ85, CZ75 Compacts.  They don't know the difference (function wise) between the FMJ 115's and the hollow point 115's.

I would be afraid of light springs resulting in damage to the frame or the slide release.

And sometimes a gun will function better (feeding/chambering) with a heavier recoil spring.  Maybe that changes once it's well broken in, I don't know.

[Joe L]

I'll offer a different approach from what a run and gunner might do, as I am a bullseye/long range precision pistol shooter. 

First, I pick an ammo that I expect to shoot well in the pistol.  That ammo will be a light load compared to a self defense or LEO load.  Then I start with the factory spring and see if the slide comes back on recoil enough to catch the next round.  The round may fall less than 6 feet from me, but that is not important.  Then I go up in recoil spring weight in 1 lb increments until the spring is strong enough to prevent picking up the next round, then back off to the spring that still picked up the round.  The end result may be close to or equal to the factory spring. 

Since I am not shooting fast, recovery and muzzle dip are not important considerations for me.  What IS important is that the pistol slide and barrel lock up in exactly the same relative position for each shot.  I slingshot the first round to make sure the first round is chambered as close to the usual recoil motion of the slide as possible, instead of using the slide lock and short stroking the slide.  Believe me, I've observed that some guns lock up differently on the first shot with a slide lock release than they will with a sling shot release.  My own P-10C is an example.

So, for me, for bullseye and for precision 100-200 yard shooting, the correct spring choice is the strongest one that will allow the gun to cycle with the ammo I want to shoot.  It is repeatability I want.  I don't care if the brass hits me on the head or 3-10 feet to the right.  The gun MUST cycle reliably, however, from a static position.

But, when I shot IDPA, yes, I used much weaker springs that were easy to rack, fun to handle, didn't dip too low on the followup shots, and which were definitely hard on the gun when the slide hit the stops hard in recoil, in my opinion.  But I liked the way the gun felt, handled, and shot with the lighter than stock spring in run and gun competition.

So, pick your event/shooting scenario, pick your ammo, pick your spring.  I have an account at Wolff Gunsprings (www.gunsprings.com).  And I have a pile of barely used springs.   
Joe

[Joe L]

I'll offer another scenario. 

Since I shoot light load ammo (115 gr, <1100 fps for 9mm), the factory recoil spring is a little too stiff when the gun is factory new  and a little stiff.  I have two choices.  Stronger box ammo if available, or a lighter recoil spring.  If bulk, less expensive, standard box ammo is available, I may shoot that until the gun loosens up, usually takes 100-200 rounds if there aren't any polymer frame to slide rubs.  Then I go back to the precision ammo and the gun will usually cycle just fine now. 

If I have to use the precision ammo for break in, I will substitute a 2 lb lighter spring and that will usually allow reliable cycling, then increase the spring weight as the gun loosens up. 

The correct spring weight remains constant for tens of thousands of rounds after the initial few hundred rounds. 

Joe

[Roscoe2212]

Great stuff from you guys- I noticed that the european supplier, CZ parts, offers a kit with two springs and a new
follower- anybody know about that??

[Roscoe2212]

sorry about the last post-I looked at the site again and it comes with several springs and a special follower gizmo
which they say protects the pistol frame when using softer springs.  I have heard there are any number of spring weights, but these guys show two and mention a third which I don't see in the photo.

[M1A4ME]

Some guns/kits use a polymer "buffer" to help protect/cushion the pistol internals/frame from the recoil forces.

Problems with those buffers seems to be they can reduce the reliability of the pistol through deterioration/breaking apart and spreading pieces of the polymer through the inside of the pistol frame.

Many people don't field strip, clean, inspect and lube their pistols with enough regularity to replace those buffers prior to them falling apart.

I used buffers on a 1911 for a time (came with the full length recoil spring kit I bought for it) until I got tired of replacing them far more often than I liked.  I eventually just went to a different recoil spring.

[wellthought]

This is an interesting topic. Learning a lot here! I think I'll keep my CZ 97BD recoil spring stock. Especially since all I shoot is name brand factory stuff. I use Speer 230 grain Gold Dot ammo in my CZ 97BD.