Author Topic: CZ P-07 Duty Slide Locked-up  (Read 671 times)

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Offline GVLive

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CZ P-07 Duty Slide Locked-up
« on: August 09, 2021, 11:24:00 PM »
Today at the range my P-07 Duty (9mm) locked-up tight, out-of-battery, with a round partially chambered. This would have been the first round of the day.
I had loaded two Mags with reloaded 9mm. (This is my first time using cast lead bullets in 9mm.) I inserted a mag, racked the slide and pressed the trigger. It did not fire, as the slide had not moved completely forward into battery. I dropped the magazine, and with the muzzle pointed downrange I tried to rack the slide. It will move very slightly back, and return, maybe 1/8". The slide prevents the hammer from falling.
The pistol has always run fine. My last range trip was about five weeks ago. I have owned it since new (over six years), and I feed it factory ammo and reloaded. It has perhaps 1500 rounds through, maybe a third of that was reloads. It has not been cleaned in about 250 rounds.
The gun is secured with the hammer blocked. I will contact a gunsmith tomorrow. My primary concern is to safely disassemble the gun.

Offline SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM

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Re: CZ P-07 Duty Slide Locked-up
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2021, 05:17:01 AM »
Your handload is loaded too long for the CZ chamber and that is why your gun locked up. Read the stickies in the reloading section on how to do the plunk test and find the proper seating depth for your rounds. If you are going to a gunsmith he'll be able to get the gun apart no problem.
If it were mine I would carefully with my finger off the trigger put the front sight area of the slide against a secure table edge and push downward on the frame. This will pop the round loose and allow you to clear the gun. I've done it before. The bullet may remain lodged in the bore and need the help of a squib rod to remove. If the complete round comes out and the barrel is not obstructed you're good to go. DO NOT chamber any more of the handloads as they need to be broken down and reloaded at the proper length for your barrel.
 

Offline GVLive

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Re: CZ P-07 Duty Slide Locked-up
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2021, 09:28:30 AM »
Thank you. I suspected as much, although these rounds are on the short side of others I have loaded. Still, they are the only different variable of the entire day. I may carefully attempt the extraction you suggest; but first the 'Smith. Thanks again.

Offline tdogg

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Re: CZ P-07 Duty Slide Locked-up
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2021, 06:58:36 PM »
Thank you. I suspected as much, although these rounds are on the short side of others I have loaded. Still, they are the only different variable of the entire day. I may carefully attempt the extraction you suggest; but first the 'Smith. Thanks again.

Without knowing any details (you will need to give details to get any help reloading), you may be able to seat the bullets deeper into the case.  Make sure you read up on the "Push Test" in the reloading section of the forum here:  https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=103620.0

This is in the subsection that has plenty of information to review here:  https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=100352.0

Please post up questions in the Handloading section when you decide to rework/load more of these bullets.  Bullet profiles dictate the length you can load and they all are different.  You have to determine how long you can load with each bullet in each barrel you intend on loading before you do anything else.  If you have multiple 9mm guns you have to figure out which barrel has the shortest leade to use for the "Push Test".

Cheers,
Toby
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Offline M1A4ME

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Re: CZ P-07 Duty Slide Locked-up
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2021, 07:27:43 AM »
You really can't take internet advice on overall length for your particular pistol.

You need to measure/check your pistol.  It's most likely different than my pistol, or another pistol you may have.

My P07 .40 takes longer ammo than my CZ75B .40, my TS .40, or the Beretta 90-Two .40.

My P07 9MM takes longer ammo than my M&P 9MM with an Apex barrel.

My 1911's take longer bullets than my .45 acp XD pistols. 

Don't guess that checking in one make your loads okay for others.  Check/confirm your pistol.  Check all of them if the reloads (or even some store bought ammo can cause problems in some guns) you will make for them are to be used in all of them.  I have a few boxes of .40 marked "P07 ONLY."
I stopped carrying the SIG 556R.  SIG changed models and couple/three times and stopped supporting it with parts.  So, I stopped supporting SIG.  Back to the tried/true AR15 Carbine.

Offline Wobbly

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Re: CZ P-07 Duty Slide Locked-up
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2021, 07:58:10 PM »
Your handload is loaded too long for the CZ chamber and that is why your gun locked up.

SVPP is correct, but there's actually several things that can cause the same issue....
  • OAL too long
  • Taper crimp too big
  • Case head too big from being fired in Major PF gun

The OAL is self explanatory, the other 2 issues have to do with the 9mm's tapered chamber. That tapered chamber allows fat items to get jammed in there just like a Moorse Taper. I've experienced it myself, and it's really pretty scary.... having the hammer back and a live round in a gun you can't shoot and can't unload.

We could narrow it down if you told us some details, but we can't get all the way to the bottom, since we don't have the gun.

Let us know how we can help.   ;)
In God we trust; On 'Starting Load' we rely.

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Offline armoredman

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Re: CZ P-07 Duty Slide Locked-up
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2021, 12:26:19 AM »
I also had a slide lock up because the idiot that loaded the 9mm ammo roll crimped instead of taper crimped. Whoops. Oh, the idiot? That was me....

Offline GVLive

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Re: CZ P-07 Duty Slide Locked-up
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2021, 02:30:13 AM »
Wow! Thank you very much, each respondent. Absolutely great information. I love my CZ, and I hope to own others in the future. The article on Max OAL for the CZ was an eye opener. I’ve loaded for this pistol for about five years, but almost exclusively Berry’s 115gr plated, and some 124gr, which have all functioned with zero failures so far. As the Bullet Issues post stated, I actually did purchase the lead bullets recently when plated were hard to locate and prohibitively expensive.
In the end, the gun disassembled more easily than I expected. Liberal application of WD40 directly to the case head, draining muzzle-down overnight, followed by a gentle push back on the slide against the work bench (beyond which a safe back stop) freed the slide. Locked open, a tap on a plastic cleaning rod removed the cartridge.
Barrel muzzle-down on the bench, a comparison between a factory round and the offending round showed significant failure-to-headspace. The shape of the lead bullets is more rounded vs the Berry’s somewhat more pointed shape. Lesson learned. Much to study and apply to my reloading.
Thank you all again. I’ll be back.

Offline SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM

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Re: CZ P-07 Duty Slide Locked-up
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2021, 07:36:48 AM »
I've cast my own lead bullets for decades now and it was just over 20 years ago when I first experienced the CZ short chamber. The slugs that I was casting that ran so well in my 3rd gen S&W's wouldn't chamber in the CZ 75B I bought. That particular bullet has a very wide ogive and could not be seated deeply enough to be safely fired in the CZ. I moved on to a different mold at that point and cast a slug that worked for both brand guns. Knowing about the design of the CZ chamber will save you countless headaches from here on out since you now know what to be on the lookout for.

Offline Wobbly

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Re: CZ P-07 Duty Slide Locked-up
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2021, 08:50:19 AM »
....a comparison between a factory round and the offending round showed significant failure-to-headspace. The shape of the lead bullets is more rounded vs the Berry’s somewhat more pointed shape. Lesson learned. Much to study and apply to my reloading.

Berry does have a very slender shape to their ogive, but you don't have to be using Lead to get that troublesome blunt shape. That fattish ogive has become popular in the last 3-5 years on FMJ. (I guess the idea is to get more bullet in contact with the rifling.) So be careful with bullets like the FMJ and JHP from Rocky Mntn Reloading too.

Where the Berry RN can generally be loaded all the way out to 1.160", some of the offerings from RMR load at a Max OAL of 1.060" !! A 1/10th of an inch is an astounding difference in length for the short 9mm round. The point is, it pays to check every bullet brand and weight that's new to you.

But don't kick yourself too badly, because we've all been there. Here's the bullet that started it all for me....



The Zero bullet on the left loaded at an amazing Max OAL in the CZ of 0.984" !!

In God we trust; On 'Starting Load' we rely.

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Offline GVLive

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Re: CZ P-07 Duty Slide Locked-up
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2021, 12:18:24 AM »
Update. This weekend I measured the barrel of the P-07 and sure enough, these particular projectiles cannot be loaded safely in this gun. (Not with any of the powders I have been using.) No loss, however, as I do have an LC9 with a generous freebore. These cartridges, as loaded chamber and fire just fine. Most of them even hit (roughly) where I aimed them this morning.
Since I do load predominantly 9mm Luger, I measured all of my barrels, which was an eye-opener. They all eat the practice rounds I have built over the years, but I have received a different target bullet that I'll need to be careful about loading so that it will be safe to fire in all.
Thank you again to all responders for your advice, admonitions and encouragement. I have acquired great resources and have learned much that will increase my enjoyment of this hobby.

Offline armoredman

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Re: CZ P-07 Duty Slide Locked-up
« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2021, 12:59:58 AM »
Don't leave now, we just got to know ya!  8)

Offline Wobbly

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Re: CZ P-07 Duty Slide Locked-up
« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2021, 03:13:36 PM »
Since I do load predominantly 9mm Luger, I measured all of my barrels, which was an eye-opener. They all eat the practice rounds I have built over the years, but I have received a different target bullet that I'll need to be careful about loading so that it will be safe to fire in all.

Bullets can and will interface with different barrels in different ways. So if you have several guns, the only safe way is to measure the same bullet in each of the several barrels, determine which is the shortest Max OAL, then load to something shorter than that.

What you DO NOT want to end up with is ammo that can be shot safely only in one gun. This because Murphy's Law predicts you will end up grabbing that ammo in a rush and shooting it in the wrong gun. What the shortest OAL insures is that it can be shot in any of your guns.

After you work with 6 or 7 new-to-you bullets, you might find that your efforts always point to 1 or 2 guns. Then, your experience will lead you to OAL test those usual suspects first. Obviously, you can't assume that will be the CZ or any other gun. You've got to build that knowledge base by doing the work and keeping good notes.

It might look like a long, hard, slog at first, but you'll get faster at the 'push test' and the education will make it all very interesting.

Hope this helps.
In God we trust; On 'Starting Load' we rely.

Ask me about used Dillon reloading equipment.

 

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