Garand Thumb: The Czech's took an AK but made it better. The VZ. 58 (smol) Czech

[RSR]

IMO, Vz58 cheek slap reputation is largely due to Century putting AK slant brakes on Vz2008s that made the gun twist and kick on recoil.

The difference in Vz58 and AK is length of recoil impulse, not necessarily net energy -- somewhat similar to Vltor A4 vs standard carbine extension on ARs.

The Vz58 is what it is.  Don't anticipate much in the way of new offerings for it, unless Czechpoint completely changes their business model, or a bunch of new milsurp Vz58s become available on the US market.  Them being so common-place in Canada led to a lot of the original commercially available modernization products for it. 

But by all means, if you want to bring a product or products to market that address your gripes, please share. 

[czgunner]

I don't notice any "slap" with my VZ-58, or my old VZ-2008.

[NativeTexan]

Never heard of anyone getting cheekslap from an AK with standard setup and decent stance.  I've heard about it and felt it in a big way with the VZ.  The VZ fixed stock profile is uniquely positioned to crush your cheek upon recoil in certain positions.

My 2008 shipped with the folder. Horrible slap. Found a fixed stock on eBay, better but still got slapped. Took a cut-off-wheel on a grinder and cut the slant off that nasty thing Century stuck on the end of the barrel, turned it into a muzzle nut. Much, much better! Finally wound up getting a “PKM short” from CNCW and was finally completely satisfied.

[briang2ad]

My point is that the VZ 58 stock system places the shooters cheek higher - and is why the stock is normally sloped downward - which increases the tendancy for the stock to impact the cheek in a bad way.  a STRAIGHT stock design is better - period - than one that slopes down. 

The other part of this is that you CAN mount a straight line stock on an AK and still easily use the irons on the gun.  If you do this on the VZ, it can be hard to do - case in point is the Zhukov, but there are other examples.  I think this is a disadvantage and limits your options.  That's all. 

I'll even go so far as to say that IF you carefully and properly/tightly anchor the folding stock to the shoulder, it is decent and a better option than the fixed stock.  But as one sees this situation (in the post above) is still not great. 

And... the modern AK options are amazing and make it a more flexible X39 Carbine. 

Is the AK better because it is more flexible with aftermarket options? Yes.

Is it cooler or better made?  NO.  The VZ 58 is just much cooler and a tad bit lighter, and in general of better quality than the AK.  (At least the CSA guns). 

[NativeTexan]

My point wasn’t that the the folder or fixed stock weren’t comfortable, it was that the slant brake was the issue. Eliminate that, and 99% of the prob disappeared. Stocks sit low because the sights are close to bore height, optics weren’t common for line issue when it was designed and muzzle rise isn’t an issue (once you eliminate the slap) for the caliber. The AR was designed with a higher sight plane to utilize a receiver extension and recoil system, and thus used a higher sight plane over bore, and the AK as well with the long stroke piston above the barrel. Better recoil management-yes, but also on CBQ distances POA doesn’t equate to POI. The VZ system is much closer. Different designs, each has its strong points as well as its disadvantages. Pick the system design that works best for you. VZ won’t ever have the support that the AK has, not a large enough base to facilitate a return of R&D. Great designed arms system though. I throughly enjoy it, and being a bit different than the rest of the crowd. I’ll accept what you term limitations on account of the advantages and uniqueness of the design.
YMMV

[briang2ad]

The sharper recoil and OEM stock shape of the VZ 58 bruised my cheek almost no matter what position I was in.  This without a muzzle device of any kind (older DTechnik).  It was also harder to get to the irons than say an AK.  Sure, I may have a weird face structure, but I've heard others with the same experience.

The folder put the stock UNDER - not ON - my cheekbone and with a firm hold, kept the system stable enough to comfortably shoot the gun.  And yes, the VZ folder is a ton better than the AK underfolder - the system of record at the time. 

If I had to run a system stock without optics and gadgets, I'd probably choose the VZ.  When you start modifying, the AK is an easier platform to deal with because of the numbers and manufacturers chasing that dollar.