Author Topic: VZ 58 Plastic - AC Unity  (Read 2750 times)

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Online briang2ad

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VZ 58 Plastic - AC Unity
« on: December 01, 2021, 05:41:31 PM »
I REALLY like these mags - has ANYONE done some drop tests with them?  Any durability issues?  Thanks.

Offline RSR

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Re: VZ 58 Plastic - AC Unity
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2021, 03:03:58 PM »
Search the forum, as there is previous discussion.

They are as thin or thinner than Lancers. 

Lots of reviews to their AK mags that are similarly durable.  General consensus is range mags.

They definitely are not as durable as the OE Vz58 aluminum mags.

Online briang2ad

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Re: VZ 58 Plastic - AC Unity
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2021, 02:46:33 PM »
Search the forum, as there is previous discussion.

I do, and usually don't find much.  Send a link if you do.  I' have only ever found speculation about them.  Nothing quantitative.

Offline RSR

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Re: VZ 58 Plastic - AC Unity
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2021, 07:01:44 AM »
I do, and usually don't find much.  Send a link if you do.  I' have only ever found speculation about them.  Nothing quantitative.

By all means, if you want meaningful quantitative data, spend your time, effort, and money to create statistically meaningful a random sample of magazines and weapons and ammo types and use cases and test while firing tens to hundreds of thousands of rounds, including deliberate abuses and extreme scenarios.  A $20k budget and a couple weeks of testing and data recording and analysis time should be your bare minimum baseline.

Otherwise, you're going to have rely on folks' qualitative reports based upon limited samples of both magazines and firearms.  Your call if you decide to belittle and diminish those opinions as "speculation" or accept them as informed AND fair and honest opinion.

In my professional world, I deliberately and carefully make use of both qualitative and quantitative data as each provides specific benefits, as well as detriments, given limited resources.  YMMV.

Online briang2ad

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Re: VZ 58 Plastic - AC Unity
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2021, 10:39:22 AM »
I get it, but have never seen ANY VZ 58 mag tests online and I've watched many videos. 

When I say quantitative, I mean ANYTHING beyond "I've fired lots of rounds through..." or "they look good...".  Any drop test would be appreciated.  Yes, I could do one myself, but just would like to see/hear first.  :)

Offline PLANofMAN

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Re: VZ 58 Plastic - AC Unity
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2021, 10:03:04 PM »
I get it, but have never seen ANY VZ 58 mag tests online and I've watched many videos...
That's because most people use the relatively cheap VZ58 surplus mags.

But let's take a look at their own blurb. It was obviously written by the marketing department.

Quote
"The AC-Unity 30rd 7.62x39mm window magazine for your Czech model VZ58, VZ2008 or other clone that use VZ58 magazines. Designed to offer greater strength and impact resistance than original VZ58 aluminum magazines.

Made from an advanced, German made polymer-resin/granulate that is light weight and extremely shock resistant. The body is impact resistant through a wide range of temperatures (-30°C to 120°C.). This polymer is exclusive to AC-Unity and gives these mags a huge edge in weight and durability.

Front and rear locking lugs and reinforcements are machined from German GD ZN 410 metal legure; this is a specific German marine grade metal-alloy that is hardened, anti-magnetic, highly anti-corrosive with great wear properties.

Carbon wire spring has a lifetime warranty against corrosion and will not degrade from use or loaded storage. These are designed for long term storage, even when fully loaded.

Low-friction anti-tilt follower and a removable floor plate for easy cleaning.

This mag is built to last using state of the art materials! AC-Unity magazines are used by Bosnian Defense Forces and other militaries in Europe and the Middle East. Not just military grade; but current military issue.

Lifetime warranty against defect, loss of spring strength or corrosion.

Specifications:

Magazine Weight (Unloaded): 6.0 ounces
Color: Black
Capacity: 30rd
Cartridge: 7.62x39mm
Condition: New
Production: Made in Bosnia and Herzegovina"
So...
It has ribs and won't dent. (That's what they mean by "impact resistant"). The "polymer-resin/granulate" is probably a form of nylon or whatever else they are making glock frames from these days, with a healthy handful of fiberglass, carbon fiber, or nano-robots for all I know.

GD ZN 410 is the fancy name for Zamak 5, which is a fancy name for zinc alloy, which is what most people call it when they are trying to be nice. RSR would probably just call it 'pot metal.'

It has many properties that make it an ideal material. It can be cast to very close tolerances, minimizing machining time. When coated, it is impervious to the elements. If the coating is breached, by say, cartridges passing though the feed lips? Or by a magazine well on the outside of the magazine? Then you will get corrosion over time. Another property of zinc is that it is brittle, compared to aluminum or steel. A sharp enough and heavy enough shock in the right spot can crack it, especially if corrosion has gotten to it.

Carbon steel spring, probably coated. Designed for "long term storage," interesting choice of words there. "Low friction" (AKA "plastic") floorplate and follower.

Used by "Bosnian Defense Forces" and made in Bosnia as well.

All of this tells us quite a bit. These were made by the lowest bidder or by a relative or friend to someone in power in Bosnia, to presumably, the Bosnian military. The military is going to say "we need XX million or thousand magazines. They have to be able to sit on a shelf for a long time and still be good. It has to not break when it's tossed in with a bunch of equipment. It has to survive X number of reloads before disposal or refurbishment."

That number is probably between 5 and 20. It is the soda can, wrapped around 30 fluid ounces of liquid 7.62x39mm goodness. In the eyes of the military, once that goodness is gone, you throw away the can or recycle it. The armorer checks it, gives the spring a push to test it, and out it goes again to the field, refilled. It's the disposable bit of the rifle, and that is how the military views it. If the military doesn't view it that way, the soldiers certainly do.

I would consider this magazine to be ideal for storage. I would consider it to be absolutely reliable for the first five magazine loads through it. I would start checking the feed lips for cracks after that, most likely completely unnecessary, but I'd probably still do it just the same. I would use these and save my aluminum surplus mags for when reliability and durability absolutely mattered.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2021, 10:36:08 PM by PLANofMAN »

Offline RSR

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Re: VZ 58 Plastic - AC Unity
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2021, 03:18:12 AM »
I get it, but have never seen ANY VZ 58 mag tests online and I've watched many videos. 

When I say quantitative, I mean ANYTHING beyond "I've fired lots of rounds through..." or "they look good...".  Any drop test would be appreciated.  Yes, I could do one myself, but just would like to see/hear first.  :)

Enter into google the following and you'll see a couple mag tests here: "site:czfirearms.us vz58 mag test" w/o the quotes

Granted, not all the videos, etc, remain live, but they once were and summary impressions are covered.

Also, AK and Vz58 mags are slightly different in locking and function, but close enough for gov't work.

I've definitely posted on AC Unity mags in past year or two here but quick search not pulling up, along w/ Robert RTG Vz58 mag pouches.  I definitely didn't delete those, but can't guarantee no one else did.

Offline RSR

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Re: VZ 58 Plastic - AC Unity
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2021, 03:26:41 AM »
GD ZN 410 is the fancy name for Zamak 5, which is a fancy name for zinc alloy, which is what most people call it when they are trying to be nice. RSR would probably just call it 'pot metal.'
[...]
All of this tells us quite a bit. These were made by the lowest bidder or by a relative or friend to someone in power in Bosnia, to presumably, the Bosnian military. The military is going to say "we need XX million or thousand magazines. They have to be able to sit on a shelf for a long time and still be good. It has to not break when it's tossed in with a bunch of equipment. It has to survive X number of reloads before disposal or refurbishment."

That number is probably between 5 and 20. It is the soda can, wrapped around 30 fluid ounces of liquid 7.62x39mm goodness. In the eyes of the military, once that goodness is gone, you throw away the can or recycle it. The armorer checks it, gives the spring a push to test it, and out it goes again to the field, refilled. It's the disposable bit of the rifle, and that is how the military views it. If the military doesn't view it that way, the soldiers certainly do.

I certainly don't intend to be that critical -- just that current OEM aluminum mags have largely survived 50+ years and are extremely durable, especially compared to AR15 aluminum mags designed and developed at the same time.

Beyond that, I think your description is apt, but like all polymers we don't know specifics of function until torture tested against extreme heat and cold, deet, solvents, etc. 

And provided everything's kosher, I would prefer a stainless to carbon spring in polymer mags -- don't think increased service life of carbon springs counter-balances increased corrosion given questionable long-term durability of polymer mags.  Perhaps there's some storage/compression consideration there I'm unaware of though.

To reiterate though, I am still eagerly awaiting a cost-effective and highly durable 20 round Vz58 magazine.  And I don't trust the CSA translucent ones that are probably made by same folks who make the Scorpion EVO and Cz 805 Bren mags that have had durability/reliability issues as well as zero metal reinforcement.

Online briang2ad

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Re: VZ 58 Plastic - AC Unity
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2021, 12:00:33 PM »
Quote
Beyond that, I think your description is apt, but like all polymers we don't know specifics of function until torture tested against extreme heat and cold, deet, solvents, etc. 

I agree.  Cold and feed lip breakage and failure is important.  Would like to see a test.  Heck, maybe I'll run one over in my driveway, LOL.

Online briang2ad

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Re: VZ 58 Plastic - AC Unity
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2021, 01:04:01 PM »
Test.

20 rounds loaded - I can tell you that these do NOT suffer from weak springs.

Dropped on concrete 5 times (6 but one was too much on the side) directly on the feed lips - I was able to pop a round lose, but the lips are in excellent shape. 

I would surmise that these are a bit better than mere range mags.  We'll see. 

Not sure running over in a car is that practical, and I'm not sure I want to drop the rifle on concrete - maybe on carpeted concrete.   :)