"Double Whammy"

[boatdoc55]

Well I went and got Wobbly's double whammy from about a year ago. I stumbled on to some Hornady 9mm 147 XTP's awhile back thinking good for SD and now I find how non-thinking I was at 2am in the morning. These things aren't going to load anywhere near length to fit in any of my CZ's. At least with the powders I have at the reloading table.
  Anyone load these so they plunk test and not be stuck? Maybe a different powder? I just can't load them for another gun as CZ is all I have.  Thanks fellas

[SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM]

Have you done the push testing to determine the oal for your barrel? You may need a different powder but who knows you don't say what you have on hand. I have never loaded the 147 gr. XTP but I have fired quite a few factory loaded rounds through my CZ's some time back and they performed well so I would think you should be able to come up with a safe loading.

[George16]

I haven’t loaded XTP 147 but have loaded RMR reloading’s 147 flat point. I loaded them @ 1.102” OAL for my shadow 2 with 3.3 Gr of sport pistol and N320. No problems whatsoever

[Wobbly]

You're going to need to start all over and tell us what gun you're loading for and what powders you have on hand. I may have some 147gr XTP's and I may be able to replicate the load in the lab.




For now, we'll just pretend you wrote this at 2AM. 

[boatdoc55]

OK, back at it. Life outside CZ's got in the way. For the gun, I have a P 07, P 10C, P10S and a Rami that could be carriable. Really don't know which I'd carry. Powders on hand are Red Dot/Promo, Bulls Eye, Unique, Tite Group and 231.
                                  Thanks

[tdogg]

OK, so what are the push test results for all four of those gun barrels with the 147xtp?  Pick the shortest result and subtract 0.015 to get your chosen OAL.  This will inform what load data starting point you choose to work up a new load at your chosen OAL.

I'd start with the BE-86 (if that was what you meant) if I was making SD loads.  It appears to be the slowest of the available powders.

Cheers,
Toby

[boatdoc55]

Push test complete on all 4 guns. I took 5 cases, 5 bullets, push tested them all and averaged the 5 for that particular barrel. P 07- 1.076, P10S- 1.080, P10C-1.077, Rami-1.057. These numbers are with the .015 subtracted for the extra clearance needed per Wobbly's push test post in an earlier thread, THANKS BTW, for that. It makes a lot of sense. 

[tdogg]

I'd probably load at an oal of 1.06 or even 1.065.  The xtp is more inform than most and the majority of your barrels can be loaded longer.  You just have to calibrate your loading arm to provide more consistent bullet seating!

Note this oal is 0.060 shorter than the Alliant published data (1.12) which is about 5% shorter.   Thus you could start your load development 5% lower.   So instead of dropping your starting load 10% of max you could start 15% lower.   This also applies to dropping the max charge 5%. 

In reality the top should be confirmed with a chrono by staying below the published max velocity, while looking for signs of pressure, and monitoring accuracy.

I'd probably pick your favorite pistol that you shoot the best to work up the loads.  Then confirm the load works in the others later.

Good luck!

Cheers,
Toby

[Wobbly]

Powders on hand are Red Dot/Promo, Bulls Eye, Unique, Tite Group and 231.

• All of these except Unique are far too fast for a heavy 147gr bullet. You could use those for competition with 147gr, but for SD you'll be far better off with a slower powder, like BE-86 or Unique. BE-86 is 'low flash' and was actually developed by Alliant for use by Federal in their SD production.

• When loading 147gr gets to the "double whammy" stage, choice of brass also makes a BIG difference. Back in the day there were threads on this, but as I remember, WIN brass was some of the more shallow brass made.

Check your brass for "ability to load deeply" by opening your caliper to 0.355" and running the Inside Jaws of your caliper down into the case. That will leave a score mark which you can then measure to using the Depth Probe of your caliper.

• I believe the P-series guns are going to have the shortest freebore, and therefore give you the most trouble.

[boatdoc55]

Thanks Mr Wobbly, Did you happen to notice that short little Rami at 1.057? I just did the push test to a  PCR and that sucker is 1.195. Phantom is another long one at 1.169. How in the world can there be that much difference in CZ 9mm barrels?? To my knowledge none of these barrels have seen a reamer.