Has CZ Lost Their Mind?

[MeatAxe]

I don't understand all the whining about CZ and the niche market 10mm. CZ owns Dan Wesson and now they have Colt under the umbrella both of which produce 10mm handguns.

I'll try again. Double stack 10mm. 10mm is more than niche whatever that means. It's become the most popular hunting and woods guns out there. People want a double stack for that sort of thing. CZ. Beretta, SIG are all essentially 9mm only these days in practice.

Tanfoglio is MIA and don't advertise 10mm any more.

CZC made the 97/10mm but apparently the frame wasn't up for it.

But RIA is still in the game. SW even came back with the 610.

CZ is a boutique in the race guns. A 10mm is not a stretch

Tanfoglio isn’t carried by EAA anymore, but apparently by something called the Italian Firearms Group, which probably explains why they’re MIA right now, in addition to all the Covid BS, I suppose.

Then there’s FK Brno picking up steam with the PSD pistol in their 7.5 cartridge with available 10mm, 9mm and 40 S&W barrels / conversion kits.

[Steve Menegon]

Personally, I wish CZ would have developed and produced a 10mm metal, hammer fired gun. They didn't, I wasn't remotely interested in ANY plastic guns anymore for any reason. They didn't, so I looked elsewhere. No big deal. Plenty of choices. I chose a RIA 1911 in 10mm because it covered all bases I personally wanted. I looked at a double stack offering, but it sold before I could take a second look, and bought the single stack.

My curiosity into 10mm was due to the numerous and versatile loads offered. Very appealing to me. Lighter stuff for practice and reduced wear & tear on the firearm up to some impressive offerings. Trips into north central Pa. woods with the 10mm 1911 and 3 extra mags was comforting while out for a stroll. During all this C19 bull and ammo shortages, I was finding 10mm and .357 Sig at very reasonable, but short lived prices. I stocked up a good amount. So I am set for whatever in that regard.

I have not deviated from my affinity towards my 9mm CZ guns, but I slowed my shooting of them while 9mm was unobtainium. 9mm is still in high demand and prices are coming back down. Hopefully that trend will continue.

I don't think 10mm will pass 9mm in popularity, but in my area, the 10 is a popular round. Equal amounts of 10mm on LGS shelves as 9mm. More 10mm guns on display, but not for long. Niche round? I'd say depending on where you live and the market in the area.

[BBF97]

Personally, I wish CZ would have developed and produced a 10mm metal, hammer fired gun. They didn't, I wasn't remotely interested in ANY plastic guns anymore for any reason. They didn't, so I looked elsewhere. No big deal. Plenty of choices. I chose a RIA 1911 in 10mm because it covered all bases I personally wanted. I looked at a double stack offering, but it sold before I could take a second look, and bought the single stack.

My curiosity into 10mm was due to the numerous and versatile loads offered. Very appealing to me. Lighter stuff for practice and reduced wear & tear on the firearm up to some impressive offerings. Trips into north central Pa. woods with the 10mm 1911 and 3 extra mags was comforting while out for a stroll. During all this C19 bull and ammo shortages, I was finding 10mm and .357 Sig at very reasonable, but short lived prices. I stocked up a good amount. So I am set for whatever in that regard.

I have not deviated from my affinity towards my 9mm CZ guns, but I slowed my shooting of them while 9mm was unobtainium. 9mm is still in high demand and prices are coming back down. Hopefully that trend will continue.

I don't think 10mm will pass 9mm in popularity, but in my area, the 10 is a popular round. Equal amounts of 10mm on LGS shelves as 9mm. More 10mm guns on display, but not for long. Niche round? I'd say depending on where you live and the market in the area.

Also looking at the RIA. But the double stack. Have you found anyone to make after market barrels for it?

[BBF97]

I think you're right that CZ is falling into the plastic striker fired commodity zone. On one hand, a new buyer buyer with no experience is confronted with a plastic striker gun and a DA/SA all metal that costs twice as much, it's clear where most of them go. On the other hand, that is the surefire dive to the bottom of the commodity market. Most Americans know Glock. Most have never heard of CZ. Americans are also addicted to lots of cheap stuff rather than limited high quality stuff. Any trip to a gun store in Europe will convince you they are more about quality. Will CZ compete in the commodity market against all the cheap guns from Turkey? Time will tell.

They other challenge of selling only the cheap stuff that sells "well" is that you lose your enthusiasts who have bought more than they need already. More colors/barrel lengths won't generate sales with them and yet they are a brands ambassadors on the ground. Its long view vs. short view.

10mm are easy in todays world of CNC production lines. Tanfoglio did it, CZC did it. CZ could easily do it without much disruption. I build supply chains in part of my career. It just isn't that hard once the line is set for a very similar product.

Government and police contracts are bought with money. SIG did it, Beretta did it. Those guns are sold far below costs (the contracts are public domain). CZ could do it any time they want.



[/quote]
Like it or not the 10mm is a niche market and even if CZ decided to make one if they ever do does not mean "everyone' who likes CZ's will run out and buy one. Of more than 30 people I know who are avid firearms enthusiasts there might be one who's ever expressed interest in the round. Hey maybe once the Colt thing is in place you'll get a CZ made 10mm but I'd bet it'll be something along the lines of the 1911.
The Rami saw it's day and was moved out of production for other things. Absolutely they are focused on marketing and sales how do you think they make money? By producing what sells not by tooling up for something that has limited popularity. I think CZ is heading full bore into the striker fired plastic pistol market as that's where it's at today. They are never going to get a shot at any law enforcement or military contracts in the US otherwise.
[/quote]

[Steve Menegon]

[/quote]

Also looking at the RIA. But the double stack. Have you found anyone to make after market barrels for it?
[/quote]

No, but I haven't looked into one. Stock barrel is pretty beefy. Besides, with a lifetime guarantee, I'm not doing much of anything to mine.

[629 3inch]

I only just learned cz bought colt, that’s interesting

[jwc007]

Tanfoglio is MIA and don't advertise 10mm any more.

Not exactly!  EAA no longer carries the Tanfoglio line.  Tanfoglio Pistols are now imported by the Italian Firearms Group ( IFG ).

The Full Size Tanfoglio Pistol, now called the Defiant Combat, in 10mm is listed.  https://www.italianfirearmsgroup.com/tanfoglio/detail/combat/

[629 3inch]

Is there a list somewhere of what models are still in production for the compact pistols?

[Skookum]

Is there a list somewhere of what models are still in production for the compact pistols?

https://www.genitron.com/Handgun-Manufacturer/EAA

If up to date, the page for each model shows the first year of production, and, if out of production, the final year.  It appears the EAA (i.e., Tanfoglio) Witness Compact and Polymer Witness Compact chambered in 10 Auto are both still in production.

[meistermash]

I liked the feel of the Tanfoglio better than the 97 bd.
And yes I do own a Dan Wesson Razor back 10mm.

[MetalGravy]

Also looking at the RIA. But the double stack. Have you found anyone to make after market barrels for it?
[/quote]

No, but I haven't looked into one. Stock barrel is pretty beefy. Besides, with a lifetime guarantee, I'm not doing much of anything to mine.
[/quote]


Wilson Combat makes an aftermarket barrel for 5" 10mm, but I don't know if it is compatible with RIA guns.

https://www.midwestgunworks.com/page/mgwi/prod/WC-33DTR-10

[darwin@RTGparts]

I sometimes regret selling my Phantom, but my SP-01/P-01/P-07 really have it covered. I can say that I have always wanted a CZ97-BD, so this wasn't the greatest news.

[Slackdaddy]

CZ seems to be trying to "Out Glock,, Glock?

[polecat]

I think they have lost their minds, or at least their way for other reasons. How about some better CCW designs!

- update the P07 line across the board add a subcompact to supplant the Rami.

- 10 -12 rnd P10 M optic ready.

- extended mags and optic cut on current P10m

- just offer lighter springs from the factory for God’s sake!

- offer special ccw versions maybe alum compact etc, compact and sub phantoms!

- improve customer service phone rep. Latest dude is monotone, indifferent, and needs to be at starbacks, make that McDonalds instead.

They could do so mich better.

[Slackdaddy]

I think they started to lost their way when they decided to "make Glocks",, Plastic striker fired pistols.
I came to own CZs because I had gravitated towards Metal framed, exposed hammer fired, DA/SA pistols, and the unmatched ergonomics of the 75 lineup.
That said, I sacrifice flexibility owning  CZ 75 line up of pistols. I was looking for a oem replacement slide for a P-01 OD,, does not exist, not even CZ will sell you a slide.
I was looking for aftermarket slides for the RAMI and compact,  something that is not rounded on the top at the rear,, to better fit a red dot reflex sight,, does not exist, etc, etc.

Point is, If I am in the market for a plastic striker fired pistol,, it will NOT be a Glock wanna be from CZ with limited to zero aftermarket,, it will be a GLOCK with over 1000 aftermarket slides, etc.

I think they have lost their minds, or at least their way for other reasons. How about some better CCW designs!

- update the P07 line across the board add a subcompact to supplant the Rami.

- 10 -12 rnd P10 M optic ready.

- extended mags and optic cut on current P10m

- just offer lighter springs from the factory for God’s sake!

- offer special ccw versions maybe alum compact etc, compact and sub phantoms!

- improve customer service phone rep. Latest dude is monotone, indifferent, and needs to be at starbacks, make that McDonalds instead.

They could do so mich better.