P-10F--trigger bite/pinch with Apex trigger

[jmac2112]

I recently replaced the HBI trigger in my P-10F with the trigger/disco kit from Apex.  I really like the rolling break of the Apex, as opposed to the sharp "snap!" of the HBI (always felt like I was using a staple gun).  The problem is, after my first extended range session (250 rounds or so), I ended up with a blood blister on my trigger finger.  Apparently the skin was getting pinched hard between the trigger and the trigger guard. 

I'll just get this out of the way now: There is nothing unusually large, small, fat, skinny or delicate about my hands/fingers.   

I experienced some discomfort from shooting the HBI trigger, but nothing like this.  I suspect that this is because the HBI is shorter than the Apex, leaving more room between the trigger guard and the bottom of the trigger (which is also rounded a little, as opposed to the "fangs" of the Apex).  The skin of my finger could still get pulled into that gap, but not hard enough to cause a blister (let alone a blood blister).

So, now I'm wondering if I should try modifying the Apex to be more like the HBI.  I hate to send it back, seeing how much I like it in all other respects.  Maybe I'll start by removing the "fangs" and rounding off the bottom a little bit.  If that doesn't work, I could start making the trigger progressively shorter. 

My question is, does anyone have any experience with this sort of thing?  Am I on the right track, or barking up the wrong tree? 

On a related note, why does this problem exist at all?  If I just operate the trigger and cycle the slide by hand (in dryfire), I can't figure out what forces are at work that would cause this.

Thanks in advance for your help (or sympathy)!

[Earl Keese]

This happened to me with the oem trigger and the original CGW trigger. I used some 1000 grit sandpaper with a little gun oil to remove the casting line from the inside bottom of the trigger guard. IIRC, it helped somewhat, but I ended up with the HBI trigger. FWIW, the trigger shoe itself doesn't make for a rolling or crisp break, that would be controlled by the disconnector included with the Apex kit.

[boatdoc55]

On one of my P-07's the original owner did a very good job of taking a little bit off the inside bottom of the trigger guard. Can't even tell unless one looks real close.

[jmac2112]

I wonder if I could use the HBI trigger with the Apex disconnector?  Doesn't sound like a very good idea, but maybe it would work. 

[Earl Keese]

I wonder if I could use the HBI trigger with the Apex disconnector?  Doesn't sound like a very good idea, but maybe it would work.

I would try it.

[jmac2112]

I just installed the HBI trigger while keeping the Apex disconnector, and it appears to work just fine.  I generally shy away from the mix-and-match approach, but I saw no obvious differences in geometry between the two triggers when I put them side by side.  I'll report back in a week or two after I try it out at the range. 

Thanks to both of you for your input!  boatdoc55: I didn't mean to ignore your suggestion.  I might end up taking some material off the trigger guard in the future.  From past experience I know that the HBI trigger doesn't totally solve the "pinch" problem for me, so there is room for improvement.

[jmac2112]

Just to follow up, I did try using the HBI trigger with the Apex disconnector, and it functioned just fine at the range today.  The trigger bite is better with the HBI, but it's still pretty painful.  The way my hand is designed, there's no way for me to get my finger higher up on the trigger, so it's always going to get pinched between the guard and the trigger.  In any case, if anyone is wondering whether it's possible to use the HBI trigger + Apex disco, the answer is yes.

[Duke Nukem]

The way my hand is designed, there's no way for me to get my finger higher up on the trigger, so it's always going to get pinched between the guard and the trigger.

The imagination starts working about how different your hand could be designed!  LoL

Have you tried changing backstraps on your pistol?  Maybe a smaller backstrap would let you position your finger on the trigger more comfortably.  Just a thought.

[Ecrevisse]

. . . why does this problem exist at all?

The trigger is not long enough and your finger is getting between the bottom of the trigger and the trigger guard.

SOLUTION is cheap. Put a band aid  on finger .

[CCWLearner]

I had a similar problem with one of my P-07's that had a raised ridge... casting line as Earl Keese described it earlier, inside the trigger guard on the polymer frame.  It was only a problem for me with live fire.  I figured out that I was getting too much trigger finger in the trigger guard, so I switched from the small to the medium backstrap to increase my trigger reach, and also used some high grit sandpaper to remove that casting line inside of the trigger guard, where the meat of my trigger finger was getting pinched and rubbed between the bottom of the trigger and the inside of the trigger guard.  I also sanded that line off on the bottom side of the backstrap to solve the problem of it irritating the webbing of my son's hand when he was shooting.

[jmac2112]

"Design" was probably not the best word, but what I mean is that my trigger finger has a noticeable curve toward my middle finger.  It is always going to sit low on the trigger and make contact with the trigger guard.  I recently switched from the medium backstrap to the large to see if that would help, but it didn't.  Just for giggles I also tried the small backstrap, but then there isn't enough room for my support hand palm.   There is no casting line that I can see on the inside of my trigger guard.  I have thought about taping my finger or putting some lube on it, and maybe I will try that one day.

I found a quote from earlan357 from a few years ago that seems to explain what is going on here:

"The trigger action is the same as a Glock.  While other guns simply have a spring that provides consistent forward pressure to return the trigger, the Glock/P10 works in reverse.  As soon as the trigger releases the sear, the trigger spring keeps pulling the trigger rearward.  The trigger weight at this point is zero.  When the slide returns to battery, the striker leg catches on the trigger bar.  This force pushes the trigger forward against the trigger finger.  So your finger feels ~5# of force at the break, 0# after, and 5# again on reset.  Depending on trigger finger timing, the trigger can literally "slap" your finger as it pushes forward.  This is also why it's so easy to ride the reset on the Glock/P10 vs say an M&P or any other striker fired gun with a traditional sear/trigger return spring setup.  To test this while dryfiring, lock the slide to the rear, lightly hold the trigger back, then release the slide.  You'll feel the abrupt change in trigger force when it slams forward."

Here's the link to the (very short) thread, if anyone wants to see it:

https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=95266.0

[DOC 1500]

The OP SAID with the small back strap he can't fit his support and oh, well there's only about a eighth of an inch difference between the medium and the small, I don't understand how an eighth of an inch makes that much of a difference.🤷