Author Topic: Murder now officially legal in Denver …  (Read 1232 times)

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Offline Skookum

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Murder now officially legal in Denver …
« on: March 14, 2022, 07:49:51 PM »
if you have the proper connections:


https://www.denverpost.com/2022/03/11/denver-rally-shooting-matthew-dolloff-lee-keltner/

At no time did Keltner present an imminent threat to Dolloff's life or health, or to anyone else.  Straight up murder, caught on film, but insufficient evidence?  Rittenhouse defended himself in the wrong jurisdiction.
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Offline Earl Keese

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Re: Murder now officially legal in Denver …
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2022, 06:34:09 AM »
This video indicates otherwise. Based on released video, I can see plenty of jurors finding for the defendant.

Offline Skookum

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Re: Murder now officially legal in Denver …
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2022, 03:09:01 PM »
Earl,

You might want to bone up on the law of self defense:



While Keltner's assault on Dolloff was unwise and perhaps unlawful (if he struck first), Keltner did not come close to posing an imminent threat of death or serious bodily harm to Dolloff.  Furthermore, Keltner clearly retreated after slapping Dolloff.

Hanging your hopes on the jury being ignorant is not a good strategy.


While the available footage doesn't show it clearly, Dolloff may well have been the first to strike when he interposed himself between his client and Keltner.  Keltner was stupid to demand the removal of cameras, but making a stupid demand poses no serious threat to anyone and does not invite an assault.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2022, 03:21:39 PM by Skookum »
Skookum
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Offline Steve Menegon

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Re: Murder now officially legal in Denver …
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2022, 04:18:18 PM »
At what point do you say, oh, that is pepper spray and not some home brewed concoction consisting of god knows what before you defend yourself?

Just throwing it out there.

Offline Atomic Punk

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Re: Murder now officially legal in Denver …
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2022, 04:52:02 PM »
This guy was no professional. He was embarrassed getting slapped and pepper sprayed in front of his client. He wasn't even justified going hands-on with the guy but was too afraid to even do that so went for the gun. Bad shoot all day long.

This was a political non-prosecution, just as much as Rittenhouse's case was a political prosecution.   

Offline simplemann

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Re: Murder now officially legal in Denver …
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2022, 06:12:30 PM »
Shooting someone because they pepper sprayed you??? I don't know man??? Best just to have backed up away from the spray pattern at least thats what I would have done but full disclosure Im not in the security business.

Offline Grendel

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Re: Murder now officially legal in Denver …
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2022, 06:38:23 PM »
Someone point out the relevance to the RKBA here please. Does this affect our 2nd Amendment rights other than tangentially, or is this just a news story about some idiot who got lucky in court?
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Offline Skookum

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Re: Murder now officially legal in Denver …
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2022, 06:52:38 PM »
Someone point out the relevance to the RKBA here please. Does this affect our 2nd Amendment rights other than tangentially, or is this just a news story about some idiot who got lucky in court?


Well, Dolloff was unlawfully working as a security guard as he wasn't licensed to do so as required in Denver.  The prosecutor is respecting his 2nd Amendment right to carry, concealed with his state permit, while working illegally.  A win for the 2nd Amendment; a loss for law and order.


While it looks like Dolloff is off the hook for murder, he should still be liable for working without a license, and Pinkerton may be liable for making him available, and Channel 9 for hiring him.  Hopefully a civil court will hold all three parties financially accountable.
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Offline Skookum

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Re: Murder now officially legal in Denver …
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2022, 07:02:36 PM »
At what point do you say, oh, that is pepper spray and not some home brewed concoction consisting of god knows what before you defend yourself?

Just throwing it out there.


https://www.semperverus.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/The-5-Elements-of-Self-Defense-Law.jpg


The Reasonableness prong covers this.


To be fair, if you were innocent and someone were to dose you with wasp/hornet spray, a lethal force response may be reasonable.  I say this without knowing the active ingredients, but assuming reasonbly they are quite toxic.
Skookum
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Offline Grendel

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Re: Murder now officially legal in Denver …
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2022, 07:12:56 PM »
Soooo....not really then, other than he was working unlawfully and got off because the prosecutor thought he was protected under the RKBA? I rather think it was more a case of the prosecutor didn't see a realistic prospect of convicting him, given the circumstances, since both parties were obviously less than 'upright' citizens.
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