Author Topic: Die setup questions in dillon (9mm)  (Read 2013 times)

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Offline Bishop112

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Die setup questions in dillon (9mm)
« on: March 29, 2022, 12:58:35 PM »
So have just received a never used Dillon 650xl for a price that could not be passed up. It has never been setup before and came with a 9mm change kit, a redding seating die, a redding full lenth/decapping die, a RCBS lockout Die, and an empty spot for the taper crimp die.

Couple questions:

Does the seating die have the crimp built in (I think it does)? Redding info/instructions seem to be a little hard to find.

Should I get a taper Crimp die to run after the seating die?

Any other things I should do with the Dillon that will help. Looking for any tips or tricks.

The only dies I have used for 9mm are the Lee kit that I have in my Lee Loadmaster and the dillon is a little different. In the loadmaster I use the factory crimp die after the seating die and I am thinking I want to try something a little different. The Lee puts out some great ammo but I think it could be better.

Thanks

Offline tdogg

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Re: Die setup questions in dillon (9mm)
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2022, 07:53:53 PM »
I can't comment on the 650 tweaks to foster success.  I recently purchased a lightly used Dillon S1050 for a price I couldn't pass up.  I will post up a separate thread discussing my upgrades/learnings getting it setup properly at some point.

My Redding competition seater does not have crimp feature built in.  I'm not sure what Redding seater die you have but I'd skip crimping while seating and get a separate taper crimp die for your final press location.  The Lee taper crimp is a fine tool but any taper crimp die will do the job.  I'd skip the Lee FCD unless you find a real reason to use it (I only use it to "fix" bad rounds that don't pass the case gage for practice).

I use the RCBS lock out die and really appreciate it's press lock up feature but I'd still look in the case.  This was easy on the Hornady LNL as the station was right in front.  I'm finding that difficult on the S1050 due to where the bullet seating happens (not in front but near the back).  I purchased a borescope camera to position looking into the case post powder drop but I'm still struggling with it.  When I added a bullet feeder, I can't use the lockout die (and keep separate seat and crimp), so it is even more important getting a good look into the case for powder.

Cheers,
Toby

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Offline JBruns

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Re: Die setup questions in dillon (9mm)
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2022, 07:09:35 AM »
I don't think you need a separate crimp die for 9mm personally. I ran RCBS 9mm dies on my 650 and the seat/crimp worked great on it. I've never owned that Redding die though.

My 650 was brand new when I got it, and I had to adjust the primer station a bit. It would sometimes insert the primer at an angle. Needed to have more gap between the case and the finger that holds it in place.

Offline Wobbly

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Re: Die setup questions in dillon (9mm)
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2022, 08:39:59 AM »
I run a 650 and can add some help and suggestions....

• I think it's safe to assume that most seating dies, especially those made by a company that doesn't offer a progressive press, include the crimp function as part of the seating die. That's OK, the body and the central stem do 2 different functions, and all you need to do is back off the die body just enough to eliminate the crimp function.

• Although you CAN crimp during seating, I thing the vast majority of progressive press users use a Crimp Die in a separate (last place) position. And this because it is generally acknowledged that this is the better way to go. Certainly it preserves the VERY ticklish Crimp Die setting when the die body of the Seating Die has to be removed for service from the Tool Head.

• So YES, in your shoes I would highly recommend that you buy the Redding brand Taper Crimp Die, and set that up in the last Tool Head position. You have 5 positions on that press, and forced to make a choice... I would choose the separate Taper Crimp Die over the powder lock-out function. But with 5 positions, I don't see that as any type of mutually exclusive choice. (I would NOT choose the Lee Factory Crimp Die as my taper crimp die of choice.)


650/750 Tips
• The biggest asset you can get for the 650 is the Dillon Strong Mount (or InLine Fab equivalent). The reason for this is most 650 users are doing some type of volume reloading... and that means repetitive arm movements. The Strong Mount spreads the load out over more of the bench top, resulting in far less flexing of the bench. Less bench movement means greater efficiency (less human energy consumed) to do the same amount of loading. Less muscle use equates to less back and shoulder problems going forward. You can thank me later.

• Nothing will speed up your reloading like the addition of a Case Feeder. Adding a Case Feeder moves your point of focus away from the Shellplate, and allows you to focus on the volume of powder in the 3rd station... which is why using a Powder Cop and other powder checking systems is completely redundant. The 650 allows you to look straight into the case.



• In order to see into that case, you may need a lighting system. The best one BY FAR is the "UFO Lights" by KMS Squared. I've used the others and nothing else comes close.

• The last recommendation I can make is one of the generic Spent Primer Chutes that are widely available. Think about it... if you are making lots of ammo, then you are also making lots of trash in the form of spent primers and creating an issue with collection and cleanup. The answer is to cap the underside of the press head with a primer collector and use that to connect that area to a large jug or bucket with a hose. Spend primers and all their smut automatically roll down the tube to the waiting jug... and you never need to lift a finger. Your reloading area is free of mercury-loaded dust and your brass recycling is enhanced.

• I will point out that the best collection of 650 "hop-up parts" is offered by an Ebay seller Snowshooze. He makes the best roller kits, primer switches, etc. which are all executed extremely well. These are all very nice features to add, but the MOST needed ones, the ones with the greatest utility, are mentioned above.


Also see.... https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=85603.msg638394#msg638394

Hope this helps.

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Offline Bishop112

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Re: Die setup questions in dillon (9mm)
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2022, 12:44:52 PM »
Wobbly - Thanks for the great suggestions, I ordered the redding taper crimp die so that should be good.

The press already came with an inline fabrication quick mount so I was able to drop it in my inline fab ultramount without issue! (best mount ever... especially if you have multiple presses like I do).

It also came with the dillon case feeder so I am good to go.

Im looking up the UFO light and the other parts now. Thanks!

I should be making 9mm by the weekend....... now if only primers were $25/1000 like the used to be....

Offline Wobbly

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Re: Die setup questions in dillon (9mm)
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2022, 06:46:07 PM »
More shameless product plugs....

• I really enjoy the Powder Measure Quick Release by Entirely Crimson. While not essential, if you pour your powder back into the can at the end of every session, it makes this task a real joy. Other brands are cheaper, but they are 3D printed. EC's unit is machined from aluminum.

https://entirelycrimson.com/collections/dillon-xl-650/products/quick-disconnect-for-dillon-powder-alarm-1

• If you are older and prone to muscle aches and/or shoulder pain, then the Dillon Plastic Roller Handle is a real lifesaver.

• I can also show you how to convert to grease lubrication if you like.
In God we trust; On 'Starting Load' we rely.

Offline Bishop112

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Re: Die setup questions in dillon (9mm)
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2022, 01:22:52 PM »
More shameless product plugs....

• I really enjoy the Powder Measure Quick Release by Entirely Crimson. While not essential, if you pour your powder back into the can at the end of every session, it makes this task a real joy. Other brands are cheaper, but they are 3D printed. EC's unit is machined from aluminum.

https://entirelycrimson.com/collections/dillon-xl-650/products/quick-disconnect-for-dillon-powder-alarm-1

• If you are older and prone to muscle aches and/or shoulder pain, then the Dillon Plastic Roller Handle is a real lifesaver.

• I can also show you how to convert to grease lubrication if you like.

Well I got the press reloading. I have to admit it is better than the Loadmaster..... just seems smoother...

Does the UFO light work with the power supply of the inline fabrication lights? I already have inline lights on my other presses but I really like the look of the UFO.

Offline Wobbly

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Re: Die setup questions in dillon (9mm)
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2022, 09:16:00 AM »
Does the UFO light work with the power supply of the inline fabrication lights? I already have inline lights on my other presses but I really like the look of the UFO.
Yes. It was the same power supply when I bought mine about 5 years ago.
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Offline Bishop112

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Re: Die setup questions in dillon (9mm)
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2022, 02:30:26 PM »
Thanks!

Offline Wobbly

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Re: Die setup questions in dillon (9mm)
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2022, 08:23:51 AM »
Do you have the Dillon Spare Parts Kit or the long spring for the old time powder measures ??

One of the beauties of the Dillon is their snap-back powder measure cam. Especially on a new Dillon powder measure, the snap-back can be enhanced. The snap-back action results in a consistent vibration, which is a VERY big key to consistent powder weights, cartridge after cartridge.

I use the Dillon spring from the older 450 powder measure, and add a 5/8" length of steel wire to lengthen it. This adds just the slightest bit of Umph! to the return action. You can also do this with rubber bands, but they need regular replacement. Like so...






See how the spring is relaxed at rest? You only want to assist the return action, not start hammering the powder bar home. Also note the Entirely Crimson quick release in the bottom photo.

Hope this helps.
In God we trust; On 'Starting Load' we rely.

Offline Bishop112

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Re: Die setup questions in dillon (9mm)
« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2022, 11:29:58 AM »
Wobbly. I have the new style dillon measure. I also have the small parts kit but I don't remember seeing a spring like that in it. I will look into it thanks for the heads up.

Also, the ufo should be here soon. I'm excited to try it out.