Pepper Spray

[crosstimbers]

armoredman-
Part of my experience with spray ineffectiveness relates to dogs. I've seen dogs that just didn't even seem fazed, while others yelped and yowled and were easily turned away by it. It was through that which gave me a hint at what might be involved, as it led to my reading about the way some bears were deterred from attack while others weren't, the theory being that the bear's state of mind was the critical factor. Like I said, if that stuff the Forest Service issues has failures, then ALL spray will sometimes fail. In the case of the person I mentioned, I'm sure his "pharmaceutical" condition factored in at times...but to be real honest I also think the fact that he was crazy- at least to some extent- was involved (state of mind again). He wasn't all that big, and was not a body builder or even athletic.

He just went into a state of mad that few people seem even capable of.

[armoredman]

Again, having working with the significantly mentally ill in three different max custody units - I agree. Some of them are so out of it gas barely fazes them. I liked the guy who was petting the service dog who was biting him AND dragging him out of the cell with his teeth...
But, I will also say - I don't carry pepper spray as a self defense option off duty. Inside the wire they get kinda miffed if I try to take my handgun in with me...

[cracker57]

Trout fishing we run into dogs, some time aggressive dogs. The last thing I want is to have to shoot a dog, that would not sit good with me and the owner most likely will not be feeling very good either. My biggest fear is dealing with the owner after putting his pooch down, pepper spray is carried and hopefully works. This also would be about the only situation I can see where a warning shot might work.

[crosstimbers]

Again, having working with the significantly mentally ill in three different max custody units - I agree. Some of them are so out of it gas barely fazes them. I liked the guy who was petting the service dog who was biting him AND dragging him out of the cell with his teeth...
But, I will also say - I don't carry pepper spray as a self defense option off duty. Inside the wire they get kinda miffed if I try to take my handgun in with me...

You have my sympathies. One jailer at County told me one time how I should be happy because we got to arrest them and then leave after they were booked, while he had to deal with them his entire shift. I cant find fault with his point on that 

[armoredman]

Trout fishing we run into dogs, some time aggressive dogs. The last thing I want is to have to shoot a dog, that would not sit good with me and the owner most likely will not be feeling very good either. My biggest fear is dealing with the owner after putting his pooch down, pepper spray is carried and hopefully works. This also would be about the only situation I can see where a warning shot might work.

I had to spray one dog, once, aggressive puppy tried to attack me when I got out of my car at home. One quick shot of Sabre Red to the snout and he took off running at Warp 9.

[JamesCC]

I think there are just some people who react the opposite than most do when approached with that level of force.

[carbinefan]

 It's definitely better than trying to defeat an attacker, who is armed with a knife or guns, with just your bare hands and whatever fighting skills you have

[armoredman]

It's definitely better than trying to defeat an attacker, who is armed with a knife or guns, with just your bare hands and whatever fighting skills you have

We've done that, with an inmate armed with a shank, "prison made knife", and we have gas, radios and guts. Nowadays we have even more options, thank fully, but I'll never foget standing next to Tower 13 watching 7 of my staff go out in ambulances.
Crosstimbers, 6 of one, half dozen of the other - inside the wire, the teams are usually pretty easy to identify. Some of them, like level 3 SOs, are easy to manage. Level 5 criminally insane...not so much.


BUT...we are digressing WAY past the original post and I am to blame as well - ay this time I do not use pepper spray fr personal self defense off duty, nor do anyone I know on or off The Job. The space I might use for a can of gas I have occupied with a CAT TQ.