Background checks to buy during a gun show

[Franko]

I've read people frequently have to wait days to get a gun they purchased at a gun show. Can't the FFL vendors do a background check while you wait at the show so you can take it with you?

I googled, but could not find an answer

[crosstimbers]

Back in the days of the however-many-day "waiting period", one had to wait the required time to take possession of the firearm. But unless some state has laws to the contrary, if you buy from a dealer at a show, they do the check right then.

That being said, some of the entities putting on the shows may have rules as well. Back in the heyday of the Dallas Market Hall Show, that association managed to influence some of the vendors that they needed to keep records even on private sales. It was one of the factors that contributed to th end of that particular show as we knew it, or so I heard.

[thelastbill]

I have purchased a few guns from shows and attended more than I can remember.

I have never seen a gun change hands without a check. I have also never waited more than 30-45 min for it complete.

Different states have different laws about how long it takes. I won't live in a state that takes more than 24 hours.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

[wagwan]

Here in Florida, background checks are done right at the shows. If you have a carry permit, you can then take possession immediately. If not, there is a mandatory three business day waiting period.

[Franko]

So it's a state level issue instead of some federal law. That clears up my confusion

Thank you for the replies 

[alp3367]

So it's a state level issue instead of some federal law. That clears up my confusion

Thank you for the replies 

 It can be both. While some states have various waiting periods the NICS (most states use it, a few have their own system) check is also not always instant. While the majority of them get approved or denied on the first call/echeck some are "delayed". In those cases the dealer may release the firearm after three business days if they have not received a response.

[crosstimbers]

I have purchased a few guns from shows and attended more than I can remember.

I have never seen a gun change hands without a check. I have also never waited more than 30-45 min for it complete.

Different states have different laws about how long it takes. I won't live in a state that takes more than 24 hours.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

If you buy a gun from a dealer, then a check is required unless you have a carry permit. If you buy from an individual, the check is not required as of yet, though of course some wish to close the so-called "gun show loophole". This is a rough sketch of Federal requirements, some states no doubt differ. I was an FFL for a time, the nics check usually is complete in just a few minutes over the phone, but there can be a delay of (IIRC) 3 days.

[DOC 1500]

My first pistol purchase in Pennsylvania was 30 minutes in and out the front door of the LGS with the pistol. I then drove downtown to the Sheriff's department filled out the application walked out after 40 minutes with a carry license.
Everything done in less than 2 hours.👍😃 life is good in Pennsylvania.
That's the way it should be. 2nd amend.

[bonj]

Regardless of the State where purchased, if there is a buyer information anomaly such as similar too names,  birthdays etc, it will be delayed. At which point the Feds will not respond further and you will be good to go after the mandatory waiting period. Happened to me every time, until I received my CCL.

[alp3367]

Regardless of the State where purchased, if there is a buyer information anomaly such as similar too names,  birthdays etc, it will be delayed. At which point the Feds will not respond further and you will be good to go after the mandatory waiting period. Happened to me every time, until I received my CCL.

 NICS usually does respond. It's just not always within that 3 business can not release period. I don't do it anymore but used to do thousands of NICS checks. I'd say we got a response on 80% of the ones that initially got a delay. Of those the majority were within the 3 business day period. Sometimes within an hour, sometimes a day or two later. A much smaller amount were after the 3 day period, but usually within 2 or three weeks. I'd say only about 10% or less never got any determination at all after an initial delay.

[double-d]

If you buy a gun from a dealer, then a check is required unless you have a carry permit.

Depends on the State.

 
Washington State used to be that way, but since 2019 -----------

https://www.wadefense.com/waiting-period

[tomboyjr]

"Depends on the State.

 
Washington State used to be that way, but since 2019 -----------"


 Exactly. CT used to be like that, if you had a permit then you carried the gun out with you. But since Sandy Hook happened, they require a check right then. A few years ago I got turned down on a Sunday afternoon, even though I had a permit since I was 18 (when this happened I was in my 50's-lol). Some State Police computer glitch. And I had to go back to the shop the next day to get the gun(45 mins each way). Even private sales have to go thru the State police. Both parties call the SP right then, and get a check done and then get a transaction #. Which goes on the paperwork that goes to the PD in the town where you each live, and the State.

 Even here in TN now, a dealer has to do a check for each purchase.

[crosstimbers]

If you buy a gun from a dealer, then a check is required unless you have a carry permit.

Depends on the State.

 
Washington State used to be that way, but since 2019 -----------

https://www.wadefense.com/waiting-period

I thought I qualified what I said, that some states might differ.

What I said about private sales may differ as well. But so far anyway, here in Texas, private sales do not require a background check or documentation. The seller is supposed to ensure the buyer is a Texas resident (I think) but otherwise it's still sane here.

[mrcabinet]

I've been delayed on every purchase I've made through an FFL for the last three years, so keep that in mind about the "instant" background checks. I always clear within 1 or 2 days, but it just makes for an extra trip. I don't purchase from FFLs at gun shows anymore because of that. Most of the licensed dealers at the two local shows I attend are from out of town, which makes it an inconvenience that I don't need.

Thanks to a couple of AL Sheriffs handing out concealed permits to their buddies that had felonies, having a CCP here no longer allows you to fill out the paperwork and walk out with your new firearm.

[SdAufKla]

FNG here to the forum, but I thought I could add a bit to the discussion.

Here in SC all FFL sales must have a completed 4473 which is sent electronically (or phoned in) to the FBI for an NCIS.  However, if the buyer holds an SC CWP permit, the FFL MAY at his or her discretion, allow the buyer to take possession without waiting for the NCIS to clear.  Without the CWP, the FFL has to wait for the NCIS to clear OR the mandatory 5-business day waiting period to expire before transferring custody of the firearm to the buyer.  The FFL is required, of course, to retain the 4473 in his or her permanent business records to be examined by the ATF without notice at any time. 

Private sales or transfers between individuals only requires that the seller check that the receiver of the firearm is an SC resident (basically check their driver's license to be sure it was issued in SC).  There's no requirement to record or report the transaction to anyone or any authority.

I do work for an FFL (gun range that also has and FFL and retail firearms sales), and I can say from firsthand observation that the "instant" part of the NCIS is pretty much one of those "in name only" sorts of things.  Sometimes the background check comes through in just a few minutes, but more often than not, it takes a few days.  It is quite normal for the 5-business day waiting period to expire before the check comes back.

I'll avoid opining too much on the illogic and non-sensical "rationality" of extending the present waiting period or adding additional required (juvenile) criminal or mental health records checks without also appropriating more money for the FBI to increase its resources (agents and NCIS support).  The NCIS system is already at the breaking point and on its best days just barely functions as is.  Adding more time to do something that can't already be done by the current system or, even crazier, adding millions more checks for private sales to the system can only result in even more "instant" background checks that go uncompleted.