Author Topic: 1979 Short-Rail 75 cast?  (Read 3236 times)

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Offline polish-jack

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1979 Short-Rail 75 cast?
« on: October 08, 2022, 01:26:20 AM »
I just took possession of a 1979 short rail CZ 75 I won in an online auction and the first thing I did was to field strip it and tap the barrel against the frame.  ;D

Boy am I disappointed. I was looking forward to hearing a sharp crisp high note. The same note you get from tapping the slide. These frames are supposed to be forged. Well all I got was a thunk like my 1987 Pre-B CZ75. What is going on? Isn't the frame supposed to sound like the slide? Do I have a cast frame Short Rail? Is it a fake?

Offline Grendel

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Re: 1979 Short-Rail 75 cast?
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2022, 09:37:03 AM »
Welcome.

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Offline solisis

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Re: 1979 Short-Rail 75 cast?
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2022, 08:27:16 PM »
Are you sure you're supposed to hear anything with it just field stripped?

I forget where but I read from someone that they heard the glass like sound when they stripped it down for re-bluing, including removing any components that can be removed. If yours is in good shape, I'd say don't strip it to hear that sound unless you really don't care about the collector value of the gun.

You have a 79 short rail. What's the serial number? If all stars align, be happy you have one at all. They are not easy to come across.

Offline polish-jack

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Re: 1979 Short-Rail 75 cast?
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2022, 09:49:23 PM »
Here it is. The serial number is 19188. I took it to the range today and it functions well. Very well worn and I truly dislike the engraving.  Given a chance I would trade it for an equally worn one without.











« Last Edit: October 09, 2022, 09:53:35 PM by polish-jack »

Offline Psyop96

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1979 Short-Rail 75 cast?
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2022, 12:33:52 AM »
Take a look at the “CZ 75 History and serial range” post that’s permanently fixed at the top for some information and speculation on your topic of concern, especially regarding the Spanish frames and a link to an old thread. When shooting these older pistols, I suggest using a current slide stop and grips to preserve the originals. Congrats on the short rail.


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Offline polish-jack

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Re: 1979 Short-Rail 75 cast?
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2022, 01:25:58 AM »
I have read the entire History and Serial Range section and found it a fascinating and enjoyable read. That said I'm hoping to find out if there is a way to differentiate a cast frame from a forged frame. The information on the short frames indicate that it is possible to have a cast short frame, but less probable.

If someone here has an earlier model they can take detailed internal pictures I could do the same and look for differences.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2022, 11:52:27 AM by polish-jack »

Offline solisis

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Re: 1979 Short-Rail 75 cast?
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2022, 04:32:17 PM »
Wow! Never seen one engraved at all... I don't mind it myself, but I know that has to hurt the collector value of the gun in some way. It had to have been done back when these were just available. Nobody in their right mind would do that to a short rail these days.

I'll be able to dig out a 77 short rail in a couple weeks. I'll break it down and send some internal pics.

Very nice though. If I had a worn down one I would be interested in trading. These days though, even the worn ones are incredibly expensive.

Offline polish-jack

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Re: 1979 Short-Rail 75 cast?
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2022, 06:25:27 PM »
Wow! Never seen one engraved at all... I don't mind it myself, but I know that has to hurt the collector value of the gun in some way. It had to have been done back when these were just available. Nobody in their right mind would do that to a short rail these days.

I'll be able to dig out a 77 short rail in a couple weeks. I'll break it down and send some internal pics.

Very nice though. If I had a worn down one I would be interested in trading. These days though, even the worn ones are incredibly expensive.

Thanks! I can't wait for the pictures.

Offline solisis

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Re: 1979 Short-Rail 75 cast?
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2022, 12:33:57 AM »
By the way, did it come with a magazine? Your pics don't have one so I have to wonder.

I had a bit of a time tracking down mags that will work with the short rail 75's. It has to be pre-b which is easiest to identify by the large groove at the base of the magazine, and possibly even engravings on the back or a stamp with a serial number. Back in the day, the short rails had stamped matching mags. But many had basic engravings of the last few digits of the serial scratched in. You can expect pre-b mags to run at least $100 these days, maybe even $200 if the seller has no soul. Weirdly hard to find considering these were not exactly scarce back in the day (I mean any pre-b 75 using the same mags)

But if you are intending to shoot, you should pick up a spare slide catch. They run about $50. I had to order from Estonia to get one because I don't want to risk breaking the original. You have original grips too. If you want to shoot it you may want to pick up some aftermarket grips as well.

You're in Canada, right? I only ask because the engravings are kind of up my alley. I am pretty interested in a short rail I can shoot without worry. Mine is pristine and it spooks me a bit to take it out at all and that's just not fun. But I have no idea how we would undergo a purchase or trade if we are in different countries. Import rules and all. I would never trade my pristine one, but I can find a fairly reasonable one and trade. I mean, if the stars align. There is one on gunbroker right now but 2k is a bit steep for one that worn down and with that high a serial number. $1200 maybe. But 2k is practically psychotic. In 5 years it might be a dream to find one for 2k but it's not exactly in my budget at the moment so I'll let that one go.

I'm not positive how the engravings affect things honestly. Yours is silver in color, likely because they stripped it to engrave and never re-blued it. Stainless, polished cz's can be pretty pricey even if modified. It wouldn't surprise me if yours retains its value because of the engravings. Harder to sell, and a narrower market, but still pretty desirable none the less, especially if it has the matching serialized mag and barrel.

Anyhow, I think it's awesome. You will likely find a similar opinion from pretty much everyone that sees it and knows what it is. Short rail is short rail, and one you can shoot without feeling guilty is almost better. If you shoot it, please post grouping pics. We're all about gun porn like that. I'll do the same at some point.

Offline polish-jack

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Re: 1979 Short-Rail 75 cast?
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2022, 12:19:35 PM »
The pistol did come with a magazine, but not the original one. It's was a 10 round short magazine with a plastic extended base plate so it would fit. CZ75s are my jam so I have magazines coming out my nose. The only ones that didn't fit were the new MacGar magazines with blue followers that came with my 2021 SP01 Shadow.

Yep, I'm up in Canada and shoot all of my guns. I shake my head in wonder at collectors. It just does not make sense to me. If you got it, shoot it! Be the envy of the club when you are there. What's the point of having it otherwise? Now, the problem with being in Canada is that they have banned all importation of handguns and are in the middle of passing a law that will prohibit the buying and selling of handguns. As I write this I world only be able to trade with another Canadian.

Regarding the shine/silver, the whole gun is blued. The pictures were taken at the range and the Sun was extremely bright so it's making parts of the 75 look worn away, sand some parts of it are, just not to shiny metal.

Offline solisis

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Re: 1979 Short-Rail 75 cast?
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2022, 06:52:19 PM »

Offline briang2ad

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Re: 1979 Short-Rail 75 cast?
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2022, 03:10:28 PM »
Maybe the ping is important.  Maybe the forging vice cast is important.

For what it is worth .40 BHPs were deliberately equipped with CAST frames to make the more resilient to a higher power cartridge.

Offline solisis

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Re: 1979 Short-Rail 75 cast?
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2022, 12:43:21 AM »
@polish-jack
Have you fired your short rail? I just took mine to the range to map out how it handles various grains and types of ammunition. I understand a gun from 1977 may have been built with different specs than those of today, but I was surprised how many failures mine had. I assumed it was due to modern ammunition manufacturing having different standards but it was still strange that it had so many failures to eject and feed.

It hates 115 grain. Pretty much fails every 2 or 3 rounds with that. Probably a worn recoil spring.

124 seemed to be reasonably reliable, but it failed to feed at least once.

147 seemed ok but I only had a small amount of defensive hornady ammo and it handled that fine. But I didn't have enough to get a confident evaluation as most of that ammo was to test my primary carry.

But overall, it had enough failures to eject and feed that I figured I shouldn't be carrying it for fun anymore. I did every now and then but its been so long since it was range tested that I was basically gambling with my life by carrying it over something I know works well.

Have you fired yours lately, and how did it handle the ammo you used?

Offline Wobbly

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Re: 1979 Short-Rail 75 cast?
« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2022, 08:00:02 AM »
I just took mine to the range to map out how it handles various grains and types of ammunition. I understand a gun from 1977 may have been built with different specs than those of today, but I was surprised how many failures mine had. I assumed it was due to modern ammunition manufacturing having different standards but it was still strange that it had so many failures to eject and feed.

IMHO, this report has holes in it large enough to drive a truck through...
• Has the gun been re-sprung ? OEM springs from 1977 (that's going on half a century old) aren't going to be performermance stars in anyone's book.
• What was this ammo range test quality ammo you used ? All ammo is not equal. If it were, then there would only be one brand on the market. Ammo can vary by power. And bullet type/shape has a definite and direct effect on feeding.

Just saying
« Last Edit: November 06, 2022, 12:10:22 PM by Wobbly »
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Offline solisis

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Re: 1979 Short-Rail 75 cast?
« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2022, 11:11:24 AM »

IMHO, this report has holes in it large enough to drive a truck through...
• Has the gun been re-sprung ? OEM springs from 1977 (that's going on half a century old) aren't going to be performermance stars in anyone's book.
• What was this ammo range test quality ammo you used ? All ammo is not equal. If it were, then there would only be one brand on the market. Ammo can vary by power. And bullet type/shape has a definite and direct effect on feeding.

Just saying

Come on, it's a general question intended to segue into something more specific. No need to insult anyone.

I asked the gentlemen at CZC the same thing for a different, much more modern gun and they immediately identified the most likely culprit and it feeds flawlessly now. They didn't complain about any holes.

A reasonable comparison would be something like a cz 70. If anyone simply said something like "jams all the time" almost anyone who owns one would remind them they operate best with european spec hand loads or factory sellier or fiocchi. For all I know there's something like that regarding short rails. Same region, mostly same era. Not a whole lot of people who are actively talking about their short rails, so I figured I'd ask someone else who has one, and who has spoken up about it within the past year or so.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2022, 10:57:11 PM by solisis »