P-09 Suppressor Ready, spring replacement question

[dehughes]

Hi all,

My second P-09...had a regular one a couple years ago and sold it once I came across the P10F.  Found this P-09 and love it so far.

I'm looking at replacing parts that are prone to breakage, such as the trigger return spring and firing pin retaining pin, for the sake of reliability.  I'm also considering replacing parts that might improve the overall functionality, such as hammer or recoil springs.

I'd like to keep it reliable both suppressed and unsuppressed (thinking of springs here), but at the same time don't mind upgrading parts like the firing pin and retaining pin for the sake of long-term parts wear and breakage.  Have various parts in my cart at Cajun's website but figured I'd post here first and get recommendations.

My question is, what replacements would you recommend? 

Thanks in advance.

[M1A4ME]

I've not, yet, broken a spring in a CZ pistol.

I did, two or three years back, replace the trigger return springs (reliability upgrade), firing pin retaining pin (reliability upgrade) and firing pin block spring (said to lighten trigger pull a bit) with CGW parts in my P07 and P09 pistols.

I've only replaced one hammer in a P07 that had a trigger pull not as nice as my other three.  As you may have read, the P07/P09 pistols can come out of the box with awesome feeling triggers all the way to lousy.  Mine came out of the box:  two great, one not too bad and one that needed help.

Follow the suggestions to use snap caps or the o-ring trick to make your firing pin retaining pin last longer.

I have no experience with running a suppressor on a gun.  Can't help there with do's or don'ts.

[dehughes]

Thanks.  I’m considering replacing the firing pin but am confused about the spring weights as it seems if you replace the firing pin and spring with the Cajun ones I think you need to run a lightened hammer spring.  I’m all for including better parts but I’m hesitant to lighten the hammer and/or recoil springs as I don’t want to have them too light for suppressor use.  I’m hoping someone here has gone before me and can advise. 

[M1A4ME]

It's all a balancing act between the ammo, the recoil spring, the hammer spring, the sear spring, the way the slide/hammer interact as the slide moves to the rear and friction between the moving parts.

You may find yourself running the pistol as is, or replacing springs as you try to figure out what makes it work.

Good luck with it.  And keep us posted here as you learn.  Share that knowledge.  I don't have a P09 SR but I've got three other 9MM pistols with threaded barrels and I keep flirting with the idea of buying a suppressor or two just to see what it's about.  And maybe a .22 suppressor for a rifle, too.  Got a SIG 522 I think about putting a suppressor on.

[Wobbly]

It's all a balancing act between the ammo, the recoil spring, the hammer spring, the sear spring, the way the slide/hammer interact as the slide moves to the rear and friction between the moving parts.

^^ This is an excellent response. ^^

Remember that the hammer spring is what ignites the primer inside the cartridge. The stock hammer spring will ignite ALL primers from ANY ammo maker. When you change out the hammer spring you run the chance of increasing the percentage of Fail To Fire (FTF) occurrences. If you only use your gun at the range, then an FTF (1 out of 100) is good for a laugh. If you use your gun for SD, then you may not be chuckling.

Now, if you already buy all your ammo from one maker OR handload your own using only one brand of primer, then your chances of avoiding FTF issues increase dramatically and you could probably reduce that hammer spring force by up to ~20%. But these days most people are lucky to find ANY ammo. And that's just part of the "balancing act".

Remember: You don't get something for nothing.

[dehughes]

Thanks guys.  Would you say it’s worthwhile to replace the trigger return spring, the firing pin, and the firing pin retaining pin and leave the rest alone?

I ask because those parts seem to be the most crucial for reliability’s sake yet can be replaced without tinkering with overall functioning. 

[Wobbly]

DEH -
I've owned CZ's since about 2000 and I have never broken a spring or had a FTF... except when/where I was experimenting with 3rd party parts and was warned that the parts in question might be too light. (To their credit.... the parts and warning were from CGW on a P10c.)

What I suggest is....
1. Wait until your gun is broken-in (500+ rounds)
2. Do your own parts swap so that you can do 1 part at a time. Start with the largest spring... which will most proabably make the biggest difference. Shoot ~25 rounds and see what the effect is. Then add the next part. Shoot ~25 rounds.... and so on.

Most of these changes can be done at the range with very few tools inside 10 minutes. So the feedback will be instantaneous, and the comparison will be apples-to-apples.

Also, I never change 2 parts at the same time, unless it's a pair (like firing pin and firing pin spring). If you change 2 unrelated parts and you dislike it, then finding which part is causing the problem becomes much harder. I highly prefer "easy".

And above all remember... variations in ammo abound. So if JoeX says XYZ change is nirvana, that may only be the case when you use HIS ammo. Your results may vary. Objects in mirror may be closer than you think.

[dehughes]

Sounds good.  Thanks.

If I replace just the firing pin with a Cajun one and leave all other springs stock, should I re-use the stock firing pin spring then?  I ask as I believe the Cajun firing pin spring needs a lighter hammer spring.

[Wobbly]

If I replace just the firing pin with a Cajun one and leave all other springs stock, should I re-use the stock firing pin spring then?  I ask as I believe the Cajun firing pin spring needs a lighter hammer spring.

The hammer spring is physically one of the larger springs in the gun. It controls the hammer fall (firing pin strike) AND controls the energy required for the slide to move to the rear.

Following the advice above.... Replace the hammer spring (and only the hammer spring) as the first step. Fire 25+ rounds to feel the effect. Is every round firing ? Has reliability decreased ?

Then proceed to the firing pin/ firing pin spring swap.

Then maybe try the next lower recoil spring weight.

• Of course you can order all these parts for a single shipment. What I'm suggesting is that they be added to the gun one at a time.

[dehughes]

Thanks.  I get it, but my question was just about the firing pin though.

That is, if I replace only the firing pin, I should only replace that and not the firing pin spring, as that’s spring requires a different hammer spring weight.  Right?

[Wobbly]

CGW is extremely good about telling you what goes with what, and how to mix and match parts during an upgrade.

Generally, these instructions appear on the same screen as the "Buy" screen.

Please follow their instructions. You don't want to follow any instructions except theirs.

The users here can best help you if you have trouble (say for instance) getting the firing pin out, or wanting to know what tool to use on a roll pin.

[dehughes]

Will do.  Thank you sir!

[M1A4ME]

I could be wrong but I believe the original intent of the longer firing pin was to help insure primer ignition with some of the lighter hammer springs.  The firing pin won't hit as hard so modify it to make it drive a little deeper to insure the cup material smacks against the anvil hard enough to ignite the priming compound between the two metal parts of the primer.

The firing pin return spring they suggest was worked out/developed to match the lower striking force of the firing pin.  If you used a factory firing pin return spring with the CGW extended firing pin and lighter hammer spring it might work against the ability of the longer firing pin to drive deeply enough into the cup side of the primer.

It's a balanced set of parts.  Designed to work together to achieve a goal.

Similar to the way some people who mostly shoot lightly loaded/recoiling ammo also install a weaker recoil spring assembly.  Shooting "weak" ammo in a pistol with the factory recoil spring might lead to failures to function (ejection or feeding/chambering the next round.

I think CGW has put a lot of testing/time/shooting into developing what they sell.  I know I sure do appreciate those adjustable sears when replacing hammers in  a CZ pistol. 

[dehughes]

Ah, okay, makes sense. 

Is there really any point in replacing any parts on my P-09 then?  I figured replace the FPRP and the trigger return spring as word has it those are weak links, but I don’t want to open up a rabbit hole of tinkering if it’s not needed. 

[Wobbly]

Is there really any point in replacing any parts on my P-09 then?  I figured replace the FPRP and the trigger return spring as word has it those are weak links, but I don’t want to open up a rabbit hole of tinkering if it’s not needed.

When I grew up, and maybe it's the same with you, if you bought a S&W or Colt handgun you wouldn't even take it out of the box... you'd just drop it off at the local gunsmith for a "trigger job". CZ pistols are way different from this. Due to the wage scale of eastern Europe, these pistols already have 99% of those type "refinements" already done for you. There are no "improvements" required.

The only thing remaining for you to do is tailor the gun to your ammo. And those moves are completely optional.